Quel’dorei High Elves as an Alliance allied race - 2024 (Part 1)

I think the difference is between intent and wording then. You said “that’s not the case” which is a “that’s not true” statement but meant “that might not be the case” which is a statement of uncertainty.

In which case, I think we’ve cleared up our misunderstanding between each other :slight_smile:

What you’re quoting was a response to someone who said something as a definitive.
The misunderstanding wouldn’t had happened if you had understood the context of the post. Something people insist on doing here, it seems.

I literally argued against a definitive, I wasn’t reinforcing my own point of view - since I was saying we don’t know either way.

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Arguing that a definitive is not true is not the same as saying you don’t know if its true.

I read the context. Please stop accusing someone of not reading or knowing it every time they don’t agree with you.

Im tired of this.

Im out.

I argued against the definitive stance someone had by saying that, factually, we don’t fully know what the actual lore is for all blood elves involved.

The only official post about it is rather casual, and doesn’t go into much detail, as it leaves out the important qualifier for why some keep it in the first place under the same conditions. Which, as I mentioned earlier, is kind of weird to be so flimsy about, as green eyes is so tied to the identity of Blood Elves…

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Was tied considering that they still slowly vanish. Again Arcane Glow in the eyes is not some mystery. It’s a thing we’ve seen in Warcraft lore over and over. Be it on Night Elves especially as they channel the power of Elune or Nature. We seen it in powerful mortal mages like Jaina whose eyes glow orange or icy blue depending on magic she weaves. Yes unless the elf partakes in fel the green glow will disappear. We don’t know specifics though. Maybe the process is slower for those that don’t practice any form of magic. They were after all also more resistant to withdrawal symptoms in the first place. We don’t know for sure but it progresses. Be it in 10 or even hundred years it will disappear unless the elf in question willingly exposes themselves to Fel.

But again Blood Elves with the exception of those in Outlands did not partake in pure fel. The crystals were the to supply energy to spells that sustained systems of Silvermoon. Ones that allowed their Sanctums to float and maintaining Arcane constructs keeping the city safe. We know how properly fel corrupted elves look. We’ve seen it with Illidari, we saw Kael’thas Followers as felblood. Blood elves of Azeroth show nothing of the kind.

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That is one of the rare occasions where it’s important to consider the meta-level of the issue. It’s not just a story issue; having the green eyes fade away over time would mean taking something away from player customization, thereby altering millions of player characters - it would be actual damage! Blizzard wouldn’t do that.

It’s the same thing as the “At some point, the Forsaken will be extinct due to the decay of their bodies”-problem, that was mentioned in Legion and BfA - it only exists on a story level, because Blizzard would simply never remove a player faction.

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Indeed.

Although I feel like this one’s a bit more specific, as the extinction example is something that can be worked on canonically.

Whereas green eyes being something so important for Blood Elves, just the same way blue eyes was/is for High Elves. it’s in the same territory of healing the Dead Scar - arguments can be made as to why it’s healed / different now - “They didn’t know of a way back then, that’s why they said it wasn’t possible”, etc. But it’s such a major theme just to do away with, y’know?

I’m as passionate about keeping Blood Elves unique as I am about having playable High Elves. Blood Elves have the potential to be far more interesting if Blizzard wouldn’t continuously remove every dark and edgy theme they had. This problem extends to most of Blizzards storytelling these days, however.

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You seem to get hung up on the idea that it wasn’t “real” fel, cause they didn’t become pure Fel Elves, but that is not how fel works.

Lorewise, fel corrupts everything around it, whether it was from a crystal or you directly siphoning a demon’s life essence. The vast majority of Blood Elves consumed Fel Crystals, It wasn’t just those in Outland, hence why we saw them all throughout Sunstrider Isle & Silvermoon.

“Pure fel” vs “Normal fel” is not lore accurate.

It was simply about the dose.
Those who transformed consumed more than those who simply fed on crystals to sustain themselves.

And the ones who transformed were power hungry sycophants of Kael’thas, who had by then openly allied himself with Kil’jaeden, so…

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I am aware. I am also aware unlike you that Blood Elves seem to suffer no adverse effects. We’ve seen the effects of Fel corruption in Orcs whose skin changed immediately once exposed to Fel. We’ve seen it in Illidari whose bodies twisted and transformed into their demonic forms. We’ve seen it with Eredar. And Finally we’ve seen it Felblood.

And yet the only observable change in Sin’dorei are their eyes glowing green. Was it because the crystals leaked as little energy as possible? Was it because most Sin’dorei balanced it with the arcane energy they tapped from small vermins and pure arcane crystals? We don’t know. We do however know the eye glow is volatile. It can change. Draining Arcane Artifact will give you a Blue or even Purple glow for some time. And we know that after 20 years since the return of Sunwell the glow started to fade among Blood Elves.

They didn’t consume them. The Blood Elves remaining on Azeroth had no idea of demonic allegiances of Kael’thas and that includes even his loyalty to Illidan. The gift and knowledge brought was that of Mana Tapping not draining fel. There’s not a single mention of Fel Crystals being tapped into by Blood Elves as their primary role was sustaining magics that powered Silvermoon. Ones that allowed their Sanctums to function, one that kept guardians moving. I’ve done Blood Elf starting experience multitude of times. Not a single quest alludes to siphoning magic from the Fel Crystals.

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I mean, you’re just wrong about a lot of the things you say, and many times it seems it’s more your own headcanon taking charge than what’s actually going on in the lore.

As to the why, I’m not sure: Perhaps elves they had less immediate physical effects because they are more magically attuned than the Orcs you use as an example and could channel it more, or something. :woman_shrugging:

We also know that fel is like arcane on steroids. They used to apply that extremely corruptive nature to Arcane, but they switched it to Fel later on as the lore progressed.

Arcane leaves you dependent, whereas Fel also makes you extremely power hungry, which was a Blood Elven theme for a long time. That’s a pretty major adverse effect, if you ask me.

And once again, you’re confusing the default corrupted state of the Blood Elves (green eyes, not just a glow from when they’re feeding - they got actual irises and pupils) versus active sources of power (channeling, etc).

We don’t know if the Sunwell’s powers will apply to the point where they change everyone’s eye colour, I personally doubt it. As it is a more indirect flow (?) of energy, steadily sating the hunger of Blood and High Elves alike, maybe the golden eyes & glow will only apply to those who directly interact with it (like Priests & Paladins).

There’s a lot of loopholes which you ignore, we don’t know the intricacies yet.

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The eyes of the Elves as well as Draenei or Dragons glow naturally because arcane energies course through their bodies. For elves its a side effect of thousands of years of exposure to the Well of Eternity and in case of Quel’dorei and later Sin’dorei the Sunwell. This is why their eyes glowed Blue even among their priests and rangers. This is why Night Elves have the yellow glow in their eyes.

I’m not only talking about golden eyes which yes are something that seems to primarily appear among those that wield the light. But the Blood Elves eyes also slowly revert to their natural blue glow.

It’s not, actually. The quote is sourced from Classic - and is referenced in the game through in-game dialogue and questing. And it’s something that TBC continued off, in showing that the Blood Elves’ way was not sustainable long-term, through the use of the Wretched that dotted their homeland.

I think the Night Elves part might be RPG lore? Which is its own can of worms, but no longer canonical.

That whole part is interesting. The design for TBC was to include playable High Elves for the Alliance, and playable Pandaren for the Horde. However because they were trying appeal to the chinese playerbase, they ended up giving the Horde a pretty race in the shape of Blood Elves as a wellfare system to keep the faction afloat.

The Draenei themselves went through three stages. Initially, they were called “Near-Human”, and were the original Human inhabitants of Draenor, of whom Garona was half part (hence Halforcen) of. Then they became the Draenei of Warcraft 3. And then, in TBC, they had to find a suitable replacement for High Elves, and ended up creating Warcraft’s equivalent of Tieflings in the guise of the Draenei as a last-minute addition during pre-production. Which personally, is one of Warcraft’s more jarring retcons (on par with Shadowlands contextualizations) of turning the original Demons into actually being an angelic-tier race.

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That’s literally what she was writing though. Can you read her entire statement, before you write that wall of text erroneously and waste your time?

Also why are you on a different character, Elcorynd? Shouldn’t you post on your Human about how we /really/ don’t need High Elves? And that if people want VElf customizations, they should just play a Blood Elf? What caused the change that you’re now advocating not only for more customizations, but also a change of the VElf racial? :slight_smile:

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What a psy op lmao.

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At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if they have a dedicated discord between them, where they flip a coin on the next person to bombard the thread with walls of noncontextual headcanon or straight up ragebait.

:face_with_bags_under_eyes:

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We keep swapping back and forth between different timelines throughout the debate so it’s all a bit muddy. Keep in mind we’re talking about some lore that was either retconned or whose influence was minimized later on, like the example I gave about Arcane vs Fel.

At the time of TBC, your blood elf spawned in with green eyes, there are enormous fel crystals all around you. The isle and the city’s infrastructure is powered by it.

Throughout the starting zone you can read about the “Burning Crystals” corrupting and unstable nature on the wildlife.

Such as this quest: Unfortunate Measures

Magistrix Erona:
"Your effort has made something clear that, honestly, I wish were not true. The unchecked power of the Burning Crystals has maligned a much larger swath of the isle’s natural balance than I thought. We must now take on more unfortunate measures to reclaim control.

The nearby lynxes have succumbed to the influence of the crystals, and they must be put down. Bring their collars, , as I may yet be able to fashion a magical restraint to turn some back from being uncontrolled."

You insist on that the Blood Elves from Azeroth never consumed “real fel”, but if you as a Blood Elf hadn’t consumed fel at some point, and if your surroundings weren’t involved in furthering the taint in some way, then why are your eyes fel-green when you created your character?

Apart from a minority that fed on crystals directly, can we at least agree that the others consumed creatures that had absorbed the fel from the crystals, indirectly? (Which is still “real fel”, btw)

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That’s the crux yes. They only absorbed the ambient mana from the air that was fel tainted. This would happen to any elf if they were to live in that area long enough though.

We also know that the last fel crystal ran out if energy during MoP and since then the green glow in the eyes started to fade with some light aligned individuals gaining golden glow while yet others steadily revert to their original blue color.

So was that a permanent mutation or just natural reaction to the surrounding mana? Seems like existing facts slightly point to the latter. And I’m very fine with that not being permanent. Why? Because for me specifically that’s what encompass the Sin’dorei. When the tragedy struck they didn’t stop moving forward. They made dubious choices and through those choices they rebuilt what was lost.

For 20 year High Elves did exactly none of this. They never moved forward and any of their major involvements was a single group that continued to bleed out culminating in their “home" being destroyed.

If Blizzard chooses to enhance the Void/Blood Elf experience instead of introducing a new High Elf race, then they need to implement the following as a bare minimum:

  • New class options such as Demon Hunter and Paladin already seems to be on the way, which is good. I’m not opposed to additional options like Shaman and Druid provided there are quests to set it up first (the proximity to Bel’ameth, Northeron, Harandar, Zul’Aman, etc.)
  • New customisation options, such as new hairstyles and face options, ranger and arcane tattoos, as well as other details inspired by fel, arcane, light, and void magic.
  • Access to Quel’Thalas seems to be on the way, and although it’s not a major deal to your day-to-day gameplay experience, it’s still nice to have that connection.

But if they want to truly impress, then they also need to figure out a solution to the main problem, namely: many Void Elf players do not want to feel like a corrupted, lesser or more wicked version of regular High Elves.

This comes down to two things:

  1. Fixing the racial abilities. Perhaps they could give you a new set of neutral abilities available to both Void Elves and Blood Elves. The simplest solution is to turn the Entropic Embrace ability into a toggle, but I fear that wouldn’t be enough.
  2. Fixing the name and its implied backstory for your character. People probably don’t mind being part of some combined Silver Covenant/Ren’dorei faction on the Alliance, but they need to be able to feel like their character’s personality is represented. So you should be able to call yourself High Elf instead of Void Elf or Blood Elf, with the implication that you never underwent any sort of ritual to alter your body.
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Doesn’t Lor’Themar still have his green eye(s)? If so could one say he is permanently tainted? I don’t know about the other leaders like Grand Magister Rommath or Halduron Brightwing, anyone got any information on them?

We really are lacking in the informations. But at the same time Lor’themar uses practically no magic. From what the lore conjured we know that individuals with less magical talent like Rangers and Farstriders were also the ones that were affected the least by Sunwell being destroyed. Could be that he’s not taking in as much mana as others so the fel wasn’t flushed as quickly. Really hard to tell at this point. Or the designer just think he looks better with green to contrast his red outfit.