Okay? they are politcally different, that is just a fact, playable or not, High and Blood disagree on the current and past choices that were made following the destruction of the sunwell.
Its not a major cultural difference or visual change like dark iron and bronze beards.
What lore?
you have something like 3 different groups of high elves, neither of which are the same or coordinated and of the three the Hinterlands are the only ones who made an effort to be different by going cold turky on magic.
Give me some actual lore that defines them as drasticly different. Did dalaran change their appereance? their culture? did the integration of the Allerias farstriders from outland change them more towards somekind of night elf lit?
i would argue they bring the exact same flavour, plus a romeo and juliet love story for desert.
Just because blizzard forget to focus on the pandaren, does not mean the split isn’t more impactful.
Both varian and Garrosh made it clear to them, no matter if they were friends, lovers or family, they chose the wrong side, they are your enemy now.
The introduction of said core race already happened with the Void Elves, and with the added skin & hair colors they’re almost identical.
To make the extra changes, to satisfy the people of this on-going request, wouldn’t change that. They’re minor in comparison to the implementation of the Void Elves.
I want Alterac humans for horde
They have a rich lore background of rivalery with the other alliance kingdoms, they were also part of the horde back in WC2.
They also have their own faction, I think its long overdo that horde get their human core race.
And don’t tell me it can’t be done because the difference is only political, alterac humans wear orange and have their own culture, they are nothing like stormwind humans!
No, because you’re not moving an inch, won’t even admit when the other side makes good points against your arguments (which doesn’t mean you’d have to change your opinion btw) and then you loop back to the overall core argument of “Horde core race given to the alliance” - which I never even contested, because it’s absolutely legitimate. Just as legitimate as the question why Blizzard is keeping the Quel’dorei around storywise and therefore dangle it in front of the Alliance HE crowd’s faces. Regarding playable Ogers, at least Blizzard was polite enough not to have them around in the Horde all the time.
I never denied that the whole topic of Alliance HE would be controversial from a meta perspective. I just pointed out that it’s not as “open and shut” as you are presenting it in this thread.
I also kept telling you that → I ← am quite happy with the Void Elf compromise, still you felt the need to tell me what you think I needed to do.
Except that’s not the case, is it? If Void Elves were enough we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
In fact, you were literally arguing this morning that there are THREE distinct types of Elf and you listed Quel’Dorei as distinct from Ren’Dorei. You even said your desire was to be able to play an ‘uncorrupted’ elf on the Alliance side.
You are being disingenuous with your own arguments.
What is it with pro High Elfers and the winking emoji? What is with pro High Elfers and using emojis sentences, period? It’s not a real word. Use a full stop.
I am not entirely sure what you are seeking to prove though. That a Void Elf can be confused for a High Elf? Given their customisation options that isn’t impossible.
So what?
No, you don’t have good arguments. That is the problem. This is a confected discussion predicated on fake parallels with other races and a subjective, absolutive headcanon that is demonstrably not how the game story was told.
You strip away all the…ahem…male cow manure that has built up over the years on this topic and you keep coming back to the same fundamental point. They are not going to give a duplicate of a core Horde race to the Alliance. I’ve made that point multiple times now and each time the discussion is moved to something else because it is in inarguable.
They aren’t going to do it. If they ever were going to do it, they’d have already done it.
And the fact YOU are happy with the compromise is immaterial when you are still arguing for the dead end pro Alliance high elf position. If you are happy with the compromise, time to move on?
What is it with these blanket statements? What is it with this stupid “us vs. them” mentality?
That we’re already at a point where you can confuse them, yet, because they have a different Blood texture (that’s visible for a split second) and an occasional Void procc - you’re claiming that they are not High Elves anymore.
Right. When the Void procc customziation idea came up and the Man’ari were mentioned as an example for a visually changed racial, your argument was that it wouldn’t hold water, because the fel rune of the Man’ari customization was still called “Gift of the Naaru”, because they didn’t… change the name. But my arguments are bad.
This again? You should really, and I mean really research the meaning of the word “headcanon”.
I’m happy with the compromise, but I’m still interested in the topic and as I said, I wouldn’t say no to a customizable racial change or more HE customiziation. Now that I have answered your question, let’s hold up the mirror again, using your own train of thought:
If…
… why do you still argue in a pro High Elf threat? If it’s over and done with Midnight, if you are so sure that they won’t add anything else - why debate people for their wishes and not just…
The argument only seems disingenuous because it’s your argument.
I don’t personally agree with any of the “core-race” principles and how it should be this uncrossable line.
My opinion is that they should just go the whole way, because at this point the line doesn’t exist, and I don’t want my high elf to erupt into a void being every 15 seconds during combat. The whole way being: Give us pure non-sticky, non-void-erupting High Elf options - maybe even a dual-option of choosing whether to be a High Elf or a Void Elf - how to make it happen is the big question.
Your argument is that having an “identical race of a core race” is unacceptable - and I told you that that line had already been crossed when they introduced Void Elves, said race that has several customization options to basically look like High Elves and Blood Elves.
You keep fighting against something that already happened.
Most of us here want more customization, to enhance the experience Blizzard already put into the game.
They are a type of High Elf. A variant. But when we talk of High Elves for the sake of clarity we refer to the uncorrupted, baseline version represented by a Blood Elf. And it is the pro High Elf side that is most keen to make the distinction.
That racial is still called Gift of the Naaru, meaning that it does the exact same regardless of who is using, a gift from a being of holy light. That there is a mild cosmetic touch where it is displayed differently on Man’ari Draenei is cool, but doesn’t hold up because what the pro High Elf side seek (if they cannot have a stand alone Allied race) is to deny that they are void corrupted mutants. It is one thing for a minor difference for flavour on an ability that does the same thing. It is quite another to seek a change that is entirely at odds with what you are to prove that you are not that thing.
The absolutist headcanon that Alliance High Elves are a major, important part of the Alliance and one of three distinct groups of Elves who aren’t playable because Blizzard is mean.
I am also interested in the topic. I don’t know why my continued interest is so confusing, even as the evidence it is going nowhere mounts up. Besides, every so often you see a prominent pro High Elfer give up once the penny drops. Like Moontear.
You are trying to argue two contradictory points and failing at both.
So I can be clear.
Void Elves are not High Elves. They are a void corrupted mutant with a distinct aesthetic and story. I accept them as the compromise they are.
You are falling prey to a nasty fallacy, that ‘they’ve come so far, they surely should go only a little further’.
The problem is once you actually take that line of reasoning it apart, it fails. IF it is only ‘so little to go’ why didn’t they do it already?
Obvious answer, what is left is the absolute red line they won’t cross. Furthermore, that there is apparently so little left actually works against you. It is not that it is so easy to bridge, it is that they almost certainly feel that having given so much already, what is left is the actually important stuff they don’t want to compromise on.
And the fact you are so vociferous in your complaints paradoxically validates this stance. If what was left wasn’t meaningful, you wouldn’t be rejecting it as not enough. Your rejection confirms that what is left is meaningful.
You dance around the points, and jump back and forth between different arguments in hopes (I assume) to make it make sense.
You say: “It cant happen because they’re identical”
We say: “It already happened, Void Elves are former Blood Elves (lore-wise) who were exiled from Silvermoon and joined the Alliance.”
The only thing that differentiates them now is their combat-passive, which in armor isn’t even very noticeable.
So your point is… void.
Void Elves are indeed not High Elves, that’s where the nuance is.
You peddle between arguing for nuance between Void and Blood Elves, as a playable model ingame, but Void Elves can be identical to Blood Elves at this point, give or take the eye colours - so what gives? It’s already happened, Kaeros.
Since the perceived thing you don’t want to happen has already happened there’s only a question about what more customization we can have to enhance our experience.
We’re already playing as High Elves, now we just want to be able to have the title and not erupt into void. It’s not a big ask.
And I think that by furthering the customization, you do both sub-types a favor. It allows Void Elves to be Void Elves, and High Elves to be High Elves.
I think you are trying to convince yourself more than you are trying to convince me. After all, what is your ‘big’ ask at the end there?
For the ability to have the game objectively agree that your void corrupted mutant is not a void corrupted mutant by ‘only’ turning off all the void racials. And changing the name plate.
In other words, to deny the core essence of what you are currently playing, a VOID Elf.
Remember, Blizzard created purple bleeding, reverb voiced Void Elves precisely to create a variant of a Blood Elf. They even said that was the reason. In public.
I mean these normal tones? I can accept that those Draenei with the Man’ari tones are Man’ari, we did a whole quest chain about that. But normal skin toned Void Elves aren’t the same.They’re in use by Void Elf NPCs today. On K’aresh and in Telrogus. Those aren’t Alliance High Elves, some of them have tentacles. And they bleed purple.
So there are no sub-types to Void Elves. It’s all Void Elves, transformed Void mutants. And what you are asking for, now the dream of a stand alone allied race is dead, is to be able to have the game say your Void Elf isn’t a Void Elf.
It will be interesting to see how far you get with that one.
These two statements contradict each other and as far as I’m concerned, everything of value for this discussion was already said (multiple times, in fact).
In the end, we all have to wait and see which way Blizzard will take in Midnight.
And I have explained that, perhaps you should pay more attention.
For ease of clarity, when we say High Elf, we mean the uncorrupted standard version represented by a Blood Elf, of whom Alliance High Elves are traitors.
When we expand to Void Elves, they are not the High Elves demanded, but a variant.
Hence Void Elves are not High Elves (they are not the ones desired). Void Elves are a type of High Elf (a variant).
We already have enough information that a stand alone Allied race isn’t happening. That leaves them ruining Void Elves by providing options that allow people to objectively say they are a High Elf, not a Void Elf.
That is an enormous and unprecedented ask as it involves facilitating denying the very essence of the race you have opted to play. The only difference with the stand alone Allied race request is that it remains possible, if incredibly unlikely.
As usual, you proceed to use semantics when it suits you, and nuance when it suits you.
It’s exhausting talking to you.
The perceived customization for High Elves has already happened, they already exist in game - I can have blue eyes, blonde hair and I can exist in the world without erupting into void should I roleplay as such.
I’m saying that already exists, the players are already playing as though they exist.
The customization is already there, going the rest of the way wouldn’t change anything.
If anything, Blizzard making a way for the player to choose whether to go High or Void Elf to start with would be ideal for both races at this point. It’s not an impossibility.
You “explained” that semantics are only important for other people, but when you write things, people have to “pay more attention”. Got it, thank you.
No need to argue about it then. Have a nice day.
To be fair, they would need to open up an Alliance race to the Horde in that case. I don’t really see that happening. On one hand, I’m quite certain that Void Elves is all we get, on the other hand we now have three Dwarf races already
