Quel’dorei High Elves as an Alliance allied race (Part 1)

Community General Discussion
4550

It was written to be that way, and in order to fully interpret what is going on as a 3rd party observer with a pan view outside the story world, you need to factor in all the things that led to the narrative been developed that way.

When blizzard wrote the blood elves in the TFT storyline, they changed philosophically from the high elves they were pre-scourge, the high elves of Wc3 RoC and of WC2.

They made them embrace fel magic - a massive taboo amongst the "noble " high elves - something their origin story fleshed out - they were dead set against fel, it is anathema to the high elf way.

If you read their early lore they were a group that were very protective and fastidious about using their magic responsibly in a way we came to understand was to distinguish themselves as much as possible from the recklessness o the night elves they once were, a recklessness that brought the legion and corrupted noble hearts.

They were strict and restrictive about magic, generous and more open hearted by allowing humans in, and sharing with them, prioritising others.

The blood elf that was developed in WC3 TFT (the expansion pack of RoC) and that was present throughout wow classic, was a bad boy high elf, a group that no longer cared about good magic, responsible magic, morals or ethics… they’d rip the heart out of you if it meant survival or gaining more power which they viewed as a direct necessity of survival.

In-game writes them describing themselves as shrewd and cunning and sneering at their former high elven ideals.

This immediately creates a philosophical and ideological distinction that makes becoming a blood elf more than just about mourning or respecting the dead.

In TBC the nation’s leadership and direction is written to have abandoned those high elven ideals and decided to embrace more radical and reckless means, in fact this is the basis for the alliance coming round to check on them (if you remember the TBC pre-event storyline, the panels in blizzcon 2005/6), on the back of the night elves stark warning.

This is because the blood elves have started using fel, a huge no no to the night elves and the alliance - as observed when Kael’thas follows Illidan to outland, at this point remember anti-hero Illidan (not yet made a villain) is not trusted and hunted because of this, and now the blood elves are taking this up.

Blizzard creates a reason for the high elf, or those who remain high elves to despite the blood elf for actually using fel and sucking it up, and abandoning all the ideals… this is used as a major tool to cause friction between high elf and blood elf - or do you completely forget the Silver Covenant questlines in WotLk.

Clearly blizzard isn’t abandoning or removing high elves, but using them as a source of friction between the horde and alliance.

However what happens is that blizzard doesn’t take the blood elves further into that bad boy direction, so while they initially start off bad, sucking fel, sucking mana out of beings, not restricting themselves from using “any means necessary”, making them kinda badass, they suck the light out of a Naaru, all this is redeemed about them, they are pacified largely over TBC’s events, a big storyline with the Scryers, interaction with the Naaru in Shattrath that ultimately leads to the being sacrificing itself to re-ignite the Sunwell with a blood elven people redeemed back to a less evil less bad boy, more high elven group.

That recklessness is tempered out and pushed to the fringes of the blood elves we follow, and they generally return to being high elf like - not as morally upright as before, but much closer and tending towards that. off course the Silver Covenant high elves still greatly embarrassed and furious at their kin for betraying their morals and their identity in TFT- TBC continue to persecute them, this isn’t helped by Lor’thermar expelling all those who retain the high elven identity away.

What does this tell you? It tells you blood elf becomes far more than what it was originally stated to by Kael’thas when the nation mourns the scourge invasion in WC3 TFT, it becomes more than are state of mourning as those who identify as blood elves start doing things very different from what is high elven traditionally.

So blood elf is now an identity, more than just a change of name established in TFT through to TBC. Now the observation is that blizzard then developed the blood elves from TBCs story onwards back into essentially high elven in character even though there now exists an identity difference in the in-game narrative between blood elf and high elf. But overall in general, blood elves are modelled back into being high elves with the new identity that becomes less and less distinct from the high elves like it was in the TFT to TBC stage.

So that effectively you feel you are essentially playing a high elf on the horde. Because blizzard wanted people who like high elves and that side of the alliance to switch to the horde to populate it further and even out the numbers.

The direction is intentional, they wanted the blood elves more high elven, so developed them so because they wanted an alliance race on the horde behaving very alliance minded, so they tempered the blood elves.

And so while technically blood elves and high elves are ideologically different, this has been whittled down to being essentially only different by being loyal to a different faction because the blood elf character is so high elven at this point mostly, and the animosity is really based on the blood elf populace behaviour and actions during the TFT to TBC era rather than anything after.

No, blizzard after TFT, well after, in chronicles mainly , but in the post TBC era is where they then go back into the lore and show that the high elves were not that close to humans before the TFT events.

This is what I am referring to, I’m not referring to when Kael’thas is persecuted by Garithos and seeks help from Illidan via lady Vashj and joins his group, this is when the blood elves start moving away from the alliance they are part of at this point in the story.

When this was released, many of us assumed that elves and humans had been great friends since the elves and humans fought together to beat the trolls when the nation of Arathor was young - a collaboration that led to Dalaran being founded and built, the Order of Tirisfal and a lot lore that seemed to have humans and elves friendly.

This lore was later fleshed out post TBC when blood elves are made horde, to show that pre WC1-3 time period the high elves were a lot more distant than it had initially appeared. They flesh out WC2 after TBC to make Anasterian and the high elves reluctant to have anything to do with the humans and alliance, and that actually only some high elves seemed interested.

This is generated to put further distance between the high elves and the humans so that players can accept the blood elves as less tethered to the alliance. It is added lore help make the blood elves feel less belonging to the alliance… I believe it was done to put an end to threads like this.

however it is in the very make up of the story… the alliance is themed upon all the things the high elves and humans are about… their view of society, life, nobility, law and order, complex religion, approach to life, study, knowledge, arcane magic, cities and civilization in the type of format that the high elves and humans and dwarves have - these are all the things the alliance has that primarily defines it. Furthermore the elves and humans have been collaborating for 3,000 years before the events of WC1, and it is too ingrained in the lore for them to remove. furthermore, Wc2 is written with the Orcs and Trolls trying to burn down Quel’thalas, and WC3’s scourge attack has the undead destroying them, the undead that are a horde race in wow.

When wow was released, it is clear the blood elves were not written or created to join the horde. It is clear to anyone who followed the franchise, that the Night elves and Forsaken were designed to be their own factions. It is a gameplay decision later on in wow’s development to make it only 2 factions, that caused te Night elves and the Undead to be broken down to fit in the 2 faction format.

when decisions like this happen, the game creators change the lore, they write new narratives. When the alliance overwhelming popularity was problematic tot he game systems that needed an even distribution, this is when they came up with the plan to use an alliance race, an attractive one to go to the horde to lure players on. it is at this point the blood elves are now envisioned to the horde, and new narrative material written to make it happen.

It is clear this was not the original intention, the high elves were not designed to be a horde race because they end up being horde members in TBC which many of you who never involved with the franchise before that era might think. You are probably use tot he blood elves always being horde, but if you look closely it is very easy to see that they are an alliance themed race, with far more in common and alike with the alliance

In fact they basically do the alliance themes better and in a nicer way than the alliance, and his is part of the reason why the alliance is not popular and feels lame, the horde does the alliance better than the alliance.

It is also why the alliance keeps asking for high elves, but never asks for Orcs, Trolls, Forsaken, Goblins, Tauren etc, it is because the high elves are traditionally alliance, and the blood elves are themed entirely on that, not on any horde race.

They don’t desire any other horde races, only the ones that are alliance based. The blood elves, and the Nightborne who are the night elven subrace.

I believe my essay above has actually addressed all the points you have made after that point .

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Partially true.

Kael’thas reacted with disgust at the mere suggestion of using fel as a means of sustaining themselves, and he never did use fel up until TBC, and Rommath implies that fel was not used or known common practice for as long as he was travelling with Kael’thas, which was through the ruins of Dalaran and through Outland.

So this is a misconception that you and others somehow have built up, there is no basis for it being common practice in Silvermoon, quite the contrary in fact.

Also, High Elves have warlocks.

No, they put up a magical barrier to hide their usage of magic so that they could use magic freely, and as soon as the humans made a single mistake, instead of better instructing the humans the High Elves instead tried to make the humans stop practicing magic all together.

They sacrificed a lot of their personal values to survive, yes. But the only group you really see in WC3 Frozen Throne is Kael’thas’ group.

Where?
You seem to misconstrue and misunderstand a lot of other things, I need a quote.

Considering that we have “High Elven” aspirants in the Void Elf starting zone, not entirely true.

Nope.

He was hunted because he was basically an escapee. Tyrande broke Illidan out from his prison, Illidan was not freed because he was allowed to. Tyrande did not possess the legitimate power to free Illidan from his prison, so Maiev continued hunting Illidan. Malfurion and Tyrande were willing to let Illidan leave.

This is not why the High Elves despise the Blood Elves, nowhere does it state this. The Quel’Lithien elves despise the Blood Elves for absorbing magic from living beings, the High Elves in the Silver Covenant despise the Blood Elves for joining the Horde and the Quel’danil High Elves don’t care about anyone but themselves.

4552

Where does that come from? Neither checking Human lore nor High Elf lore mentions anything of that? Humans at that point were desperately scrabbling for survival and were nothing like the race they currently are in game. They weren’t even called ‘humans’ yet, but Azotha…I mean you may be right, but I can’t find anything in lore stating that.

Yep, hence the deal between Quel’thalas and the Human nation (specifically) of Arathor.

That is how Alliances work, yes.

Ehh, not really, since the Second War, when the debt to Arathor was repaid, to both Kingdom’s satisfaction, both Arathor and Quel’thelas became neutral nations and no longer part of the Alliance of Lordaeron, along with Gilneas, but they are tangential to this discussion.
Ever since then the Alliance has only ever been antagonistic towards the Neutral nation of Quel’thalas. That tends to make an impression on people.

Which is good, and as it should be. Elves are selfish and mercurial in their nature.

The -Alliance of Lordaeron- helped them in the Second War. The Alliance of Lordaeron then turned on them in the Third War.

Don’t mention the Lore!

How are ideas for making High Elves a successful and appealing idea ‘Horde ideas’ I’m just going to put this out there, I am not Horde. The Horde is a fictional construct in a video game. I am an Englishman, British and European (Despite what racists voted for).
SC Elves is, and always will be, a tautology. WHY is it so hard for you to just say you want High Elves? High Elves are cool, for those who want the Tolkien jag, or even the Exile Jag (Which is a whole different storyline which is appealing, playing the ‘Outsider’ is a cool narrative).
Why would you go “I want to play a Sectarian War Criminal” instead of “I want to play a High Elf”?

Oh no, it was created long before that, and this is the -second- thread, as some petty minded fools had the first thread shut down, rather than have healthy discussion on the matter.

Nope. Not correct. Check out what High Elves looked like (Including Sylvanas) in Vanilla. Thankfully neither the playable race of Blood Elves, or the currently NPC race of High Elves look like those models, which were introduced for the playable race of Blood Elves and retrofitted to the High Elf NPC’s. Which makes perfect sense, because they -should- look the same.

I think that is an overestimation in terms of numbers. There is certainly a significant number of people who want them, and more power to them! But to start exaggerating figures isn’t doing the cause any favours. Thousands? Probably, Tens of Thousands? probably not.

Either way, it is still a viable suggestion that should be considered.

You can’t do it, can you? You can’t bring yourself to just say “Playable High Elves” without adding the words “Silver Covenant”
Do you think they are the only High Elves in existence? What are the Highvale Rangers then, if not High Elves? The Ones in the Seventh Legion? the independent High Elves seen scattered through Alliance locations? Are they suddenly -Not- High Elves because they are not Silver Covenant?

Not true. You do have an agenda. You want Silvermoon for the High Elves. How can you even say that? We are discussing exactly that subject on another thread. You want Silvermoon and Quel’thalas for the High Elves, and it’s NPC’s to turn High Elf. I mean that is literally what you want.

Lie.
I stated, very plainly, and very clearly, that the -Nation- of Quel’thalas was only part of the Alliance of Lordaeron during the Second War.
That is a simple fact of lore.

Never have I said there were not High Elves in the Alliance. I have never said such a thing. Stop making things up.

Also not factually correct. They are not Alliance themed, and they are not (Thank goodness) intrinsically tied with the humans. There was a debt between Quel’thalas and Arathor, which was repaid. There is no tie anymore.

I think I have identified your problem there. You think Elves are human-like? Oh boy, have you read the lore? Elves are not human-type, at all. They are Elves, they are completely alien in their mindset to a human way of thinking, they are arrogant, selfish, parochial, mercurial, vengeful, will only do what is best for them, will honour deals but once the deal is done, then you are nothing to them. They’re Elves basically, Elves from our myths and legends. Consider this. The worst punishment humans in WoW use is execution. Repeatedly we are shown that the worst punishment Elves in WoW use is Exile. Just stop and consider the thought process there. Humans: The worst punishment is to kill you. Elves: The worst punishment is to shun you and make you not as good as us, not one of us anymore.

That should pretty much give you an insight as to why Elves are not ‘Human-type’ at all, in the slightest.

But I realise not everyone is on an RP realm so might not look so deeply into such things.

If you want to be really picky, that would be the Trolls. Given that is what your vaunted Kaldorei are descended from.

The ten percent of the species that are exiles by choice, yes, that would be cool.

That however is not cool, is not lore friendly, and would be disastrous for both factions.

No. It is very clear that -You- do. I am fairly sure many Alliance fans would take exception to those words. The Alliance is not -just- about Elves you know?

You what?
When did you start playing this game?
The Night Elves may not have Warlocks, this is true, but the Alliance seem pretty cool with it ever since they learned how to do it. So Vanilla. Even moreso, the High Elves seem pretty OK with it also. Summoner Nolric says Hi!

No, but it does seem you have ignored some of the Silver Covenant in Dalaran, again, Summoner Nolric waves and says “Hi!”

Basically your arguments are the sort of arguments that make sure High Elves will never happen. Because whilst the actual -idea- is sound, of letting people play the 10% on Alliance, the people shouting the loudest now are the lunatic fringe, who want -Everything-, and to basically re-write the lore to suit their own selfish demands.

Doing that is futile, Blizzard will never listen to such ideas. They may give some customisation to allow Void Elves to look even more like High Elves than they already do (Which they already can) but this whole idea of taking everything from the Blood Elves including their land and city is just juvenile and incredibly unlikely to receive any traction.

This used to be a place where you could have a conversation about how playable High Elves could work.

Now it has become another thread about “Give us all Blood Elf Stuff”

One of these threads is therefore a duplicate.

If I was a petty man, which I am not, unless pushed, I would Flag one of them as a duplicate. Question is…which one?

Keep on focus. Don’t talk about what you want to steal from the Blood Elves/Horde, talk about how playable High Elves could be interesting. And Moontear, for the love of the Gods ask for -HIGH ELVES- not just the damned Silver Covenant. Other High Elves do exist you know!

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4553

It is in one of the chronicles.
They met the ‘then humans’ so to speak in snowy mountains.

Back when humans were still just small tribes.

4554

Ok, so, let’s talk about what we agree on so we do not get lost in a sea of posts that seem to never end. Void Elves have already been released, and have been given skins that can resemble that of High Elves. That is a good thing. I believe we can all support the fact that Void Elves can now to some extent resemble High Elves, IF GIVEN some light hair colours. PERSONALLY, that is all that I ask for. Just some hair colours, I did not ask for the exact same hair styles as blood elves, or the exact same colours. Blood Elves can have their own hair styles and shades of blonde, and Void Elves can have their own White, Black, and their own UNIQUE shade of blonde to satisfy the High Elf requests. Just 1 shade of blonde is all I ask for.

For those who are requesting their very own High Elf race after Void Elves were released, I am so sorry, but this will not happen. Satisfying the High Elf requests was the sole reason that Void elves came out and were given same skin colours as Belfs. It has already been done guys, we are just missing some hair colours that is all there is to it. And please, DO NOT create hate by saying Horde should lose Silvermoon and Suramar. Anything that has already been implemented cannot be reverted. Silvermoon and Suramar came to Horde to stay there and be enjoyed. If you want to have a healthy discussion and make silvermoon and suramar accessible to alliance fans you could argue for the unison of the 2 factions in the next expac so we can all be united and enjoy playing whichever race we wish without sacrifising our allegiance or our FRIENDS.

4555

Interesting, so probably after they were referred to as Azotha then, not by much, but probably a bit afterwards, yeah. Makes you wonder where though…Ah, could have been Dun Morogh area as it became known later…The Dwarves weren’t an extant power at that point, so it wouldn’t have been called Dun Morogh yet, it probably wouldn’t have had a name as such, as the humans were scrabbling tribes when the Quel’dorei arrived in the Eastern Kingdoms, yet to form Kingdoms.

We know the Exiles first reached Lordaeron, tried to settle there, but something in the land was sending them all cuckoo in the brain (I won’t give spoilers on the bizarre chance that anyone has not played Warrior Class on Legion yet.), and then headed north, so yeah, Dun Morogh makes sense…

Cool. I have zero problem with any of that. Its a neat compromise and works for everyone, as I’ve always said.

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4556

It’s not about compromise, you and I, nor Visna determine what happens to make us feel better.

We are not at a bargaining table where winning our favour is the paramount important.

Blizzard need to look at their damn game and see what is needs to be done, rather than argue out fan compromises. Target the problems, find the most effective solutions, trust your research and your analysis, have second and third opinions, make a final decision with adjustments where you feel need to, but do what needs to be done to fixt he game.

you will NEVER make every body happy so don’t try to, aim to do the best for the game, not what makes everyone least upset or manageable - if you do that you end up with half baked solutions and a lacklustre mediocre story where no one feels special, everything is tempered out to avoid upsetting anyone, when rather you shoudl take the dive - and do what needs to be done, even though some people will be upset now, they should trust you that in time, you will do good by them or do something better for them.

This is exactly the approach I’ve taken to see what needs to be done and suggesting all the various points I’ve suggested in explaining why the high elves returning and the rise of hte kaldorei would be one of hte best and effective things you can do to both the alliance and the horde at the precise sacrificing of those alliance attributes and assets present on the horde and in the blood elves. I also take the time to suggest the blood elves be developed a little bit down the line along with the Nightborne into something cool, (after the alliance has been given a little time to shine rightly) and the horde isn’t just left but gets some improvements of its own initially to it’s native races (not elves) before later on developing their remaining blood elves and Nightborne into something not based on alliance races… something like the Naga, or San’layn or Venthyr or Pandaren which are unique and are not alliance based but can be majestic and cool.

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4557

-I- am well aware of that. So it seems is Visna.
Giving Void Elves some more customisation to look like High elves, is essentially making High Elves playable on Alliance. That is what the sensible High Elf fans want. They want, as they have said repeatedly in this thread, High Elves on Alliance. They don’t want to rewrite lore, they don’t want Quel’thalas or Silvermoon or anything stupid like that, they want to be able to play High Elves on Alliance as they are, the 10% of the species that do not call themselves Blood Elves.

You keep repeating your mistake.

You are becoming more and more transparent the more often you do so.

This is all about Alliance Elves. Not about making sense. Not about wanting Quel’dorei playable on Alliance. You just don’t want the Horde to have Elves.

That is selfish.

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4558

Oh so now anyone who wants anything more or believes more is warranted isn’t sensible? Write, so we are idiots for thinking high elves should be fully playable and visible - it’s what you’re implying.

you don’t seem to have a problem with the lore re-write that was needed to take the blood elves to the horde and the obvious u-turn in the Nightborne direction it took to have them choose horde exclusively. But woe to anyone who desires the alliance regain the high elves and the kaldorei rise to their full capability, we have the red elf police cracking down with retorts and slander trying to dictate what they should desire - did you listen to yourself? Framing desiring playable high elves (and for good reason I might add) as some stupid thing in your opinion.

Wow, have you people always been like that? Trying to control and dictate to others what they should desire and what they should want? You know it really isn’t your place to do so.

Good thing I don’t care that you don’t like what I want or like what I desire, I’m not going to be changing what I feel to placate you or make you feel better, present something that is reasonable and valid and I’d adjust to accommodate a good point, but I won’t be bullied and intimidated like you’ve done to others.

According to what you have written, “being about alliance high elves is not about making sense and is about being selfish”
Right so you missed the part where I quite methodically laid out how high elves returning to the alliance would be a good thing for:

  1. The alliance
  2. The horde
  3. The state of the factions
  4. The identity, theme and heart of the Warcraft franchise that is based on such things.

Yet your only counter argument to any of this is that blood elves aren’t alliance themed, and trying to equivocate and play with the meaning of words rather than any serious discourse why this isn’t a good thing overall.

Yes I made a lot of effort to show in many ways why what I have said is good for everyone, and i have repeated it many times and you have offered nothing substantial save nit picking at words and playing around with definitions.

My motivation is to improve the game, help raise the alliance up, repair the horde and restore the core of Warcraft, your motivation is you’re upset about the idea of the blood elves losing the high elf kingdom and all things high elf in them - and I am the one that is being selfish? Even after you have been shown how such a move could actually be very good for both the horde and the blood elves themselves.

Your only reasoning for opposing it is that you don’t like it, but instead of admit that you reflect your personality on me and instead accuse me of being what you are being and being motivated by what you are motivated. I don’t even judge you for it - several times I have stated I understand you wouldn’t like it or be upset, yet you’ve judged, accused and labelled. You seem to be willing to let the factions die and the imbalance continue just so you can have bragging rights of “having better stuff than the alliance” [which makes no sense because you would have to accept that high elf stuff is better, which no orc lover or troll lover or tauren lover will agree, only people who think pretty human models, pretty magical cities and alliance type advancements are superior think like that].

The factions have serous problems, the blood elves and Nightborne having what they have and being what they are on the Horde like that is the heart of the issue, but you’d rather keep the problems and not fix it just so you could keep those things there, and I’m the one that’s selfish - because I want high elves on the alliance because that move will play a key role in fixing these problems.

Okay - so much for reasoning with you. Still not seeing it?

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4559

What lore re-write?

4560

The lore he doesn’t like.

Although it wasn’t “rewritten.” It was already planned. Quel’Thalas was never going to be a long-term member of the Alliance.
It would send neutral envoys such as the Sunreavers, to Dalaran, but it would never be part of that faction.

Only the High Elf exiles would become part of the Alliance. Void Elves…only through Alleria Windrunner.

Blood Elves won’t ally themselves with the Alliance and you have Garithos, Jaina, Vereesa and Tyrande to thank for that.

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4561

How can you read so many words, and understand so little. No. That is not what I am implying at all.

Aspirations to having more is a healthy thing. Aspirations to taking those things from others, is not a healthy thing. Simpler?

The one in WC3 before WoW was even released you mean? I mean that does kind of clearly signal that the Alliance and the Blood Elves were -done-.

Have you honestly considered for a moment, how that situation would look like in real life, just to get a sense of perspective? I’m not sure you have, let me try and craft you a metaphor as to what happened, figuratively speaking.

Picture this: It is World War II, Paris has just been liberated by the Allies (So Horde and Alliance alike) You are a French Resistance leader who has been opposing the Nastis (I’ll use that term as we know Blizz are touchy about the word, but you know who I mean) for years, like years, well before the Allies rocked up to liberate Paris.

An American (could be any nationality for the purposes of the metaphor, but lets say American) General turns up and says to you. “Look, I don’t actually care about your starving populace, and the damage done to your city, I just wanted to kill some Nasti’s”
“What? We need to feed our people and rebuild!”
“I don’t care about that, or you, you should have fought harder”
“Hang on, you’ve only just turned up, you can’t say that!”
“Oh I can, and another thing, how do I know you won’t become like that Austrian fellow with the silly moustache? Hmm? Hmmm?”
“That is outrageous!”

As opposed to an English General turning up and going.
“Damn, you had it rough, damned good job you did of fighting the occupation though”
“Well, we’re glad you got here in the end”
“Yes, look, we know what it is like, London was a damned mess after the Blitz, we suffered similar, different but similar, we’ve just started rebuilding, why don’t you send some people over to talk to our people and we can show you how we got through it? We’ll help you out”
“Oh, ehh, Merci Beaucoup, that sounds fantastic, very helpful, we certainly will”

Now -which- of those approaches do you honestly think would yield a more favourable result?

Because that is the difference in how Tyrande and Liadrin approached Thalyssra.

Which is cool. It has always been part of Tyrande’s character that she is -not- diplomatic in the slightest, It is actually part of her charm to my mind, she reflects the Xenophobic attitude of the Night Elves that they were always described as having, but you can’t then complain when that character trait drives an Elven race away from the Alliance and towards the Horde (again).

Seriously, which of those two, would you, as someone whose entire life has been a Freedom Fighter against oppression, find the most appealing?

Look at it objectively.

Never have I said this. Either post the quote where I said that wanting to be able to play the 10% of Thalassians who are calling themselves High Elves as a stupid thing, or retract that statement.

The term ‘You people’ is a charged one, as you well know. What ‘You people’? Do you think there is an organisation set up?

Citation needed.

No, seriously, Citation needed, where have I ever bullied or intimidated people?

Incorrect. That is not what I said. I said the desire to take everything from the Blood Elves and Nightborne was Selfish. I never said wanting to play Alliance High Elves was selfish, now did I?

Lets take this point by point, for clarity.

High Elves do not need to return to the Alliance, the vast majority of the 10% of the surviving Thalassian species are in the Alliance. I have always maintained that is viable, and should be an option. Personally I would have gone with them as an Allied Race, but Blizzard are going down the compromise route of making Void Elves customisable to resemble High Elves, which is fair enough.

It would be disastrously bad for the Horde. It is hardly a secret that Blood Elves are a very popular race within the Horde (Though nowhere near as high a percentage of its players as some screamers would like you to think, they were only -just- ahead of Forsaken and then Orcs the last time any reliable statistics were available years back. Allied races may have changed that demographic even more). Again, you miss the crucial point, your idea is not only to take the Horde assets away from the Horde, but to actually poach their playerbase as well. That is not a good look.

Won’t change. Those who wanted to play Night Elf magi have been able to do so since Cataclysm. Do you seriously think, for a moment, given the worst racials of any Allied race in game, that those playing Nightborne would suddenly go “Oh, I’ll jump ship!” Have you seen the difference between Night Elf and Nightborne racials? You already have that demographic.
Likewise, most people still playing Blood Elves on the Horde are doing so because they -like- the fact that they are Blood Elves, and on the Horde. If someone is just playing one for the raiding numbers, then they don’t actually give a monkey’s about the actual lore behind it, the only people who will really care, are those who care about Factions and Lore.
Alliance already -has- that demographic. They shifted when Void Elves were made playable. So you -have- that demographic. If you have people playing Blood Elves because Horde has better raiding guilds then that is not going to change by stealing Horde stuff is it?

It isn’t going to be good for the Factions. It would be terrible. It would be one of the worst possible moves imaginable, it would polarise factions even more, but this time with actual resentment from players, not just characters, and yes, you probably would notice a drop in subs. Well, actually you wouldn’t, because there have been no reliable figures on that for years now, but in some places, you would notice it. Thriving cities becoming ghost towns, faction imbalance rocketting, Less people to interact with. It would be hell on wheels with a nitro injection…

That is such a nebulous term that you can neither argue for or against it. Where is your cut off point? Which iteration of the Franchise are you holding up as the example here, as if you mean the very beginning, then we’d best both delete our characters, you roll human, I’ll have to roll Orc.

Yes, yes you are. Because you are operating from a basic conceit that is untrue, and as we see here, are not above making false claims that people have said things, which they have not in fact said.

Now you know how I feel after reading certain posts you have made on the subject, regardless, I posed the questions for a fourth time up above, as requested.

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This thread is still ongoing?
Can’t void elves become white now?
What’s the issue exactly? lol

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I think its the lack of hair color which keeps them asking for a seperate race, but i believe it will come later on hopefully by 9.1

as for the thread itself it has changed topic from the original topic. Now people are arguing over Blood elf lore and factions. this usually happens with ANY High elf thread lmao

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Void Elves, Night Elves, Blood Elves, Nightborne Elves… isnt that enough?

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They’d next be moaning that they’re not called high elves XD.

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I’m certain many people will read that wall of text. :roll_eyes:

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I’m glad you support my way of thinking Brigante. It’s obvious that we were given Void elves as an alternative to Blood Elves, not High Elves. The devs understand that giving us an elf race literally named High Elves would probably create an uproar and a sea of demands from the Horde regarding their Belfs, hence why they gave us Void Elves. I think they also understand that we are not satisfied with our Velfs having no High elf customizations and thus gave us the skins. Probably when they get to the Allied Races and update them (Nightborne first) as they said they will, they will give us some hair styles, and I am praying we will get some light hair colours such as white and a blonde shade (and black ofc) to feel that High elf look.

Another thing that could be done for the playerbase requesting High Elves is for the story to be developed in a way that would enable Alleria and her void elf army to take complete control of the void and not be corrupted by it anymore (that is where the features with no tentacles and light hair come in), but still be able to harness its powers. To congratulate them for their achievement and give them a proper welcome to the Alliance, the High Elves of the Silver covenant (Vareesa Windrunner) approach her and offer that they build a new base together, the void elves and high elves. This will be the devs’chance to truly make void elves feel like high elves WITHOUT needing to introduce ANOTHER race, while giving them a city which Void elves can SHARE with High elf NPCs. Ya know, Telogrus is nice and all but uhh…not very high elfy :stuck_out_tongue: it’s just an idea don’t lynch me please x

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It will not happen in WoW
Human potentiall and all… an Elf mastering a primodial force that scared Sargeras so much, he gathered the Burning Legion just to destroy everything so the Void wouldn’t corrupt a potential slumbering Titan, nor the inhabitants of a wolrd and twisted the mind of Dragons and way more ancient and powerful beings than a lil’ Elf? It was a bit stupid scenario to begin with, they were able to resist and remain “sane” (well, most of them, that crew in Island or the little coven in stormwind are crazy… ) but mastering it?
Not in this world… Void-Humans sure, would master that in a week, but Elves?
Never
But would be a nice solution (since the Shadow Priests and Warlocks managed to tame that power already)

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I think that is because a certain poster has started weighing in with their ideas, which do indeed include taking all the Blood Elf stuff and making High Elves the dominant strain of the Species. Y’know, like the sensible people here who want High Elves said no one sensible would ever ask for…

That has already happened in this thread, several times. I wish I was joking…

Well…if people are scared of lots of words then frankly I am neither their parent nor their teacher, so that sounds very much like a ‘Them’ problem.

I broadly agree. I mean it wouldn’t bother me if they had flat out just went “You can play one of the 10% of Thalassian Elves on Alliance side” and given High Elf as an Allied race. I don’t think the vast outrage would have come from Horde side to be honest, as apart from a few nutters, who would care that much?

Unfortunately this would mean the Horde getting something new as well, and the logical counterpart to High Elves, would be a race that has been part of the Horde since the WC games, is shown in game as npc’s and has been represented pretty much the same as High Elves. Ogres for Horde.
Now personally, I hate Ogres, Gnolls would be my go-to Allied race for Horde, but I know some people want Horde Ogres, and the logic is the same as for High Elves. We know they exist, we know they are Horde, they have been there from the start, and there is even a model frame they can use now in place (Slightly upscaled Kul Tiran frame).

The problem would be that Alliance High Elves would literally just need the Blood Elf model porting over to Alliance. Big deal, no issue with that.
Then the outrage would start, that Alliance -just- got Alliance playable Blood Elves, when Horde got a new race using an Alliance skeleton (I know, the irony is real, but lets face it, we know what -some- people are like). So yeah, people would have kicked off about it, but I honestly think it would be folks with avatars on a blue background kicking off loudest about it.

Void Elves that can be made to look like High Elves is probably the least harmful avenue they could have chosen, with that in mind. I mean take your own character, I clicked to see the full screen picture, and apart from going “Damn, you’ve got some nice stuff” I was also like “Yep, thats a High Elf”

Because that is what the character looks like. A Thalassian Elf who could be either Horde or Alliance. No one said Elves all have blonde hair (Though it is a nice option) and before people say Err, Brigante, your character literally has ash-blonde hair, I will say, Yeah, but Tessarin, my Warlock has black hair. They’re both Thalassian Elves… Pretty sure Rommath has black hair too, and he would certainly have been born a High Elf (I mean every adult Blood Elf would have been) so unless he is dyeing his hair…

In fairness, he might be, he is supposed to be an elf of older years ( I don’t get to say middle aged anymore, after it was pointed out to me that technically so am I) , so maybe is covering up some grey and white in his hair :stuck_out_tongue:

Actually, it’s Rommath, he’s practically the epitome of “I don’t give a Damn what you think” so he probably would style it out.

I can’t see how different hair colours would be -that- harmful if given to Void Elves to enable people to play High Elves on Alliance, as long as all the fans can reach a reasonable agreement as to where the boundaries lie.
Different hairstyles? Cool.
Different hair colours? Cool.
Paladin Class? Err, no, why?
High Elf racial name instead of Void Elf name? Err, No.
Give us Silvermoon and Quel’thalas? You’re a maniac, get out of here.

Then it wouldn’t really be the Void anymore, would it. I mean that is it’s -thing-. I think it would be a really dangerous in game precedent to set, for one race to utterly -control-, not be able to use, -control- one of the cosmic powers of reality. Bad enough that the Alliance have Jaina and the Horde -had- Sylvanas, Bad enough that the Horde have the World Shaman, and the Alliance have an actual -Demigod-.

Best not to indulge in any more ‘power creep’ at this stage but leave things as they are.

Thing is though…the race -is- Void Elf. Not High Elf. Telogrus is a very Void Elf thing. It is a bit lacklustre, but goodness, have you seen what the Nightborne get? Oh my word…

Its like Dwarves, Blizz have said “With the new customisation you can make your Dwarf look like a Wildhammer!”
Which is Grade A awesome, and well gnarly for my Dwarf homies, Doesn’t mean they get a new starting zone or hub though.

Don’t worry, I a)agree with you, and b) would need an angry mob in order to Lynch anyone.

We’re not allowed to form Angry Mobs at the moment under current UK Covid rules, unless they are very spaced out by two metres each. Also it being the UK it would be less a Mob Lynching Party as a group of people tutting and going “Well I never!” “I know, right, the barefaced cheek of it all!” “This wouldn’t have happened if we still had an Empire!” “and another thing, have you noticed Seagulls are becoming cheekier since Coronavirus?” “Yes, I saw a gang of them ransacking a Ford Cortina the other day, they ought to be horsewhipped and sent to Borstal, the lot of them!”
“Indeed, we won’t be able to sleep easy in our beds for fears that they will be joyramming and Ramriding up and down the shires, damned Seagulls”

“Umm, this was supposed to be a Lynch mob?”

“Shut up you, and thats another, thing, youth of today, no respect for their elders”

I don’t think people in the UK would be very good at Lynch Mobs to be frank with you…:stuck_out_tongue:

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