Quel’dorei High Elves as an Alliance allied race (Part 1)

Anizah-argent-dawn · April 2, 2023, 10:17pm

I would love to play Centaurs as well, as a Alt.

One of the biggest problems they face is how they will mount. Otherwise, should be easy to add them.

anon85751942 · April 2, 2023, 10:20pm

Well… Ever heared of Pegasus from greek mythology? Would be quite a nice solution for flying centaurs. It would make them unable to mount, but I mean… Dracthyr also can’t wear mog

Silverglare-argent-dawn · April 3, 2023, 5:57am

This is debatable
During the Second War the Horde “betrayed” them; Zul’jin grew furious when Doomhammer not only failed to destroy Quel’Thalas, but also abandoned his siege against the elves in favor of assaulting Lordaeron. Zul’jin and his armies stayed behind, continuing to fight on rules are for those too weak to break them, yet the high elven king seized the chance to upset the balance of power between them for good, and sent out spellcasters and priests to help the rangers and warriors crush the Amani. Zul’jin was captured and tortured.
Zul’jin initially refused Doomhammer’s proposal for the “alliance”, viewing it as a path to servitude under the orcs. After being reassured that he would retain full autonomy over his people, and stand as an equal to the warchief, Zul’jin changed his mind, on a single condition: if the Amani agreed to join, the Horde would help them in destroying their perennial rivals, the high elves of Quel’Thalas.
Long story short, even the Death Knights, Cho’gall and the two headed ogre magi, the defiled runestones, Gul’dan’s help and the Red Dragons and burning the forest, they failed; Quel’Thalas’s sorcerers were able to summon a colossal shield around the city. Long having served as a means to build and expand their civilization, the Sunwell now formed a barrier that Doomhammer’s forces found impossible to break through. The Horde smashed against the shield time and again, yet even the dragons’ fire was unable to pierce the shield
Warchief Orgrim Doomhammer was deeply displeased at this turn of events and chafed against the time being wasted on the elven kingdom. His objective since the outset of the Second War had been the fall of Lordaeron’s Capital City, and the longer the Horde spent laying siege to Quel’Thalas, the higher the likelihood of this goal going unrealized. Although he still had not fulfilled his pact to the Amani, Doomhammer decided to call off the assault on Silvermoon City and to instead march south, back towards human lands.
Zul’jin and the Amani categorically refused to abandon the siege of Silvermoon. They vowed not to cease their assault until all of high elven civilization lay in ruins.
Doomhammer left the forest trolls behind, despite their immense value in the war so far
In my book this is betrayal; Zul’jin and Doomhammer were equals, and Doomhammer not honored this, nor the promise he made, he made a dishonorable decision and left…
he promised they will be equals and not honored the other ones decision nor his promise about the Elves
Yes, they were strong but do you really want to turn your back on a strong agitated enemy to fight another front, knowing said enemy will be behind you?
Not to mention losing a strong ally and his soldier in the process?
I’m not sure any general would have done what Doomhammer did, and it bit him int he hard
Zul’jin needed pretty hard promises to join to begin with and he and his soldiers help was invaluable
Don’t forget Hillsbrad and that area was a stalemate untill the Trolls joined and the Horde managed to move from that military quagmire - Doomhammer and the Horde leadership were aware that as time passed, the Alliance could amass more and more reinforcements
Doomhammer broke his promise, lost his honor and left, but Gul’dan - Orc, in the Amani’s eye, another orc, don’t forget - remained with a little contingnent
A few days following Doomhammer’s departure, the warlock gathered his allies and revealed his plans to abandon the Horde in favor of reaching the infamous Tomb of Sargeras where, he promised, each and every one of them would be granted unimaginable power.
The Amani, uninterested in Gul’dan’s promises, continued their siege of Silvermoon. The Dragonmaw clan was reluctant to risk annihilation by actively engaging Gul’dan and his allies, and so instead chose to depart to warn the rest of the Horde of this betrayal, even as Gul’dan’s forces began their journey south.
Amani ruthlessly continued their fight against the high elves, though they were now fighting alone and it was all ultimately in vain. The trolls were eventually beaten back after much bloodshed, and Zul’jin himself was taken captive by a group of rangers led by Halduron Brightwing, though he narrowly escaped and went into hiding.
Now comes the important part
Turalyon and the Alliance army was in the Quel’Thalas…
Doomhammer decision not only costed him an invaluable ally, but the War itself, because Turalyon and the Alliance army with the High Elves arrived as reinforcement during the siege and the Horde had to retreat and got ultimately defeated
And since Doomhammer decision - lets not call it a betrayal then - the Horde bashed Amani heads left and right and never swallowed their pride or apologized…
The Amani Trolls have every right to be angry and hostile and 0 reason to be firends

Thisi s not true
They are the same Gorian Empire and their history is the same as the AU counterpart
Due to the ogres’ distant descent from the primordial stone giant Grond, a creature empowered by the titan Aggramar, they are naturally attuned to the arcane. They hold a special affinity for the earth, able to use arcane power to shape and bend rock and stone to their will. When the arakkoa first began to teach the ogres in the ways of magic, they were surprised and delighted by this discovery, for they had never seen new spellcasting techniques be developed so effortlessly
Due to the ancient ogres’ practice of sorcery and exposure to raw arcane magic, ogre children would very rarely be born with two heads. It soon became clear that these two-headed ogres were exceptional spellcasters, and their appearance was seen as a good omen. In time, Goria’s arcanists even developed spells to replicate this phenomenon, causing normal ogres to grow a second head and increasing their intelligence and magical aptitude. At the height of the Gorian Empire, the entire system of ogre rule and justice had been codified in support of magic and the sorcerer kings, or “imperators”. Imperial ogres jealously guarded the secrets of magic in order to keep their status among the ruling class. The wealthiest among them adorned themselves with magically-enhanced jewelry and other wearable artifacts
Not to mention, in WC2 thos Ogre juggernauts, huge, armoured stone and iron fortresses were a formidable naval force!

The Humans indeed would not accept them, but considering both the Humans and the Draenei (and now the Night Elves) were suffered from the hands of the Orcs and the Horde and were invaded and almost destroyed?
Would make way more sense than the Elves of Quel’Thalas joining the Horde of Orcs, Undead and Goblins, who have a nice history of harassing them…
The cultural differences are HUGE, thats true (but not larger than between the Humans and the Kalodrei actually) and there are some bad blood, but even on Azeroth the Ogre “population” is not really Horde-friendly
Only the Stonemaul clan “joined” the New Horde, tho1 thes was after the half-ogre Rexxar killed their chieftain in WC3, not because they were interested
After the Cataclysm, the Dreadmaul tribe was partially re-enslaved by Horde forces
Following the Cataclysm the Dunemaul clan was brought into the Horde by Megs Dreadshredder and the Dunemaul “Emissary”, but during the Burning Legion’s invasion, their compound was assaulted. All remaining residents were enslaved by nathrezim. (Some of them could be rescued by tho’)
The Ashmaul clan? Hostile
The Boulderfist clan? Independent
The Bloodeye clan? Went Twilight, hostile/defeted
The Bloodfist Clan? Hostile
The Crushridge Clan? Hostile
The Darkmaul Clan? Necromancers AND hostile!
The Deadwind Clan? Hostile
The Dreadmaul Clan? Hostile, but after losing Dreadmaul Hold in the wake of the Cataclysm a portion of the Dreadmaul have become slaves to the conquering Horde force…
The Dustbelcher Clan? Hostile
The Glopgut Clan? Hostile
The Gor’vosh Clan? Hostile
The Gordunni Clan? Hostile
The Spirestone Clan? Were/are the members of the Dark Horde. Hostile
The Splinter Fist Clan? Hostile
The Ogri’la Faction? Friendly to both side, but not part of the Horde

I’m sure I left out a few, but the point is, the Orcs/Horde not really the best of the buddies with the Ogre
Nor the Alliance for that matter
But out of the two faction, it was the Horde and the Orcs, not the Humans and the Alliance that enslaved them, destroyed them, and made them War-thralls
Sure the Alliance will NEVER accept the Ogre in the Alliance (tho’ the “Humans did have standards” is a bit questionable, they accepted Void infused ticking time bombs, and no, some random Elf scholar/victim of a botched ritual will never master a force that drove Aspects and demigods mad, even a World Soul if you take the planet Sargeras cleaved in half, not wanting Telogrus to sufffer and become Void; and scared Sargeras so mutch he formed the Legion and considered the possibility of exterminating all life an acceptable thing compared to the Void ruled one… and the Dark Iron who had their own dark history with the Old Gods and the Elements, and after became “good guys” had their relapses)

Back to the point!
Nor the Amani, nor the Ogre actually would make sense to join/re-join the Horde

Vaîheîîa-stormscale · April 3, 2023, 4:21pm

Now i have turned coat to the alliance im all for it High Elf paladin yes please.

Punyelf-draenor · April 3, 2023, 4:24pm

I’m always up for more Race Class combinations.

Kitiaara-argent-dawn · April 3, 2023, 4:29pm

*sigh * I wants to be a Warlock
The Eredar were right, the Naaru fooled us
#SargerasDidNothingWrong

Moltensage-turalyon · April 3, 2023, 8:39pm

At least the thread got back on track. With all these people trying to derail it with talks of Trolls.

The Burning Legion is defeated not dead. So you can still have a future as Eredar.

Mílkmé-argent-dawn · April 4, 2023, 1:56am

Moontear:

Quel'dorei High Elves as an Alliance allied race

HIGHELVES AS ALLIED RACE , SILVER COVENANT FACTION TOPIC CONTINUES

Alliance High Elves as a Playable Race by @ [Leolamin]

Since the April 26th Q&A, the discussion on High Elves has grown heated, fractured, and unproductive. In an attempt to restore a structured course of discussion to continue efforts to show support for High Elves as a playable race, this thread will dissect the response given by Ion Hazzikostas during the Q&A regarding High Elves. By this we hope to not only create reasoned discussion, but focus it within one thread to restore the forums to the more peaceful state it was prior to the Q&A.

To begin with, the question and reply:

Question: When deciding on Allied Races, why did you choose Void Elves when High Elves seemed more of an organic and popular choice?

Answer: So, Blood Elves kind of are High Elves with different eye colors and backstory in terms of their relationship to magic in the Sunwell. But if you want to be a fair-skinned, light, blonde-haired, tall, majestic, elf… That is a Blood Elf.

Giving that race directly to the Alliance would have blurred a lot of the lines between the two factions, but also there isn’t a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group which remains in Azeroth. There’s a couple… We just met Alleria again… But they’re not out there in the same way. When we add an Allied Race, there’s a desire to have things be even more distinct especially between the two factions with the faction conflict being so prominent. And so, the Void Elf angle, as it tied into the story of Argus, the powers of Alleria awakened and was able to train others to harness, was able to give something that felt a bit like a Blood Elf but had a unique flavor of its own to the Alliance.

That said, obviously I understand you would love Alliance elves… You’re an Alliance player, and want to be a fair-skinned, light-haired, blue-eyed elf. Sorry? The Horde is there and waiting for you. Eye color is not quite the same but maybe contact lenses in the future, you never know? Anything is possible in the future, but no plans in the near-term to add High Elves as an Allied Race.

We’ll look at the first part of the answer to begin with.

PART ONE:
BLOOD ELVES ARE HIGH ELVES

So, Blood Elves kind of are High Elves with different eye colors and backstory in terms of their relationship to magic in the Sunwell. But if you want to be a fair-skinned, light, blonde-haired, tall, majestic, elf… That is a Blood Elf.

This is nothing new, though the nature of the reply leaves much to be desired. It is widely acknowledge by all players, those in favor of High Elves and against, that the different eye color and relationship to the Sunwell is at the heart of the difference between Blood Elves and High Elves. No one disputes this, nor is it a point that needs to be disputed as it is the similarities between the two races which makes their unfolding story of conflict with one another both organic, and interesting.
That said, there is a clear logical fallacy in the words, “But if you want to be a fair-skinned, light, blonde-haired, tall, majestic, elf… That is a Blood Elf.”

This is like saying, “If you want to be a purple-skinned, muscular, white-haired, tall, majestic elf… that is a Night Elf.”

As one can immediately surmise, that description also applies to Nightborne, a Horde allied race. Did the Alliance have a monopoly on that appearance as this reply would seem to suggest the Horde has a monopoly on the appearance shared by High Elves and Blood Elves? The answer is no.

Why should the Horde be given this preferential treatment over the Alliance? Why should the Alliance lose it’s night elven aesthetic to the Horde, but the Horde maintain a monopoly on the Thalassian aesthetic?

There will never be an answer to that question which will be acceptable. The box was opened with Nightborne. It cannot be closed. The Horde has no right to preferential treatment over the Alliance. The scales may not always be balanced between the two factions, but in this case, there is no reason to leave them tilted.

PART TWO:
THE BLURRING OF FACTION LINES

Giving that race directly to the Alliance would have blurred a lot of the lines between the two factions, but also there isn’t a clear example of who or what High Elves are as a larger group which remains in Azeroth. There’s a couple… We just met Alleria again… But they’re not out there in the same way. When we add an Allied Race, there’s a desire to have things be even more distinct especially between the two factions with the faction conflict being so prominent. And so, the Void Elf angle, as it tied into the story of Argus, the powers of Alleria awakened and was able to train others to harness, was able to give something that felt a bit like a Blood Elf but had a unique flavor of its own to the Alliance.

First and foremost it must be stated clearly: Players do NOT want Blood Elves, when they’re asking for High Elves. Players want the Silver Covenant, the Highvale Elves, the Alliance Expedition High Elves. They don’t want Magister Umbric or Archmage Aethas, they want Vereesa Windrunner and Auric Sunchaser.

High Elves have been a part of the Alliance’s story for so long that there is no blurring of the lines between the two factions with their addition. If anything Void Elves blurred the lines by taking the edginess thematic of the Blood Elves and serving it to the Alliance with an actual group of former Blood Elves, rather than the Alliance’s own loyal High Elves.

We do have a clear example of who or what the High Elves are as a larger group which remains in Azeroth. The Silver Covenant has been the face of the High Elves since Wrath of the Lich King. If the Developers feel this is not enough, then it is time to focus on that identity until it has reached a point of satisfaction. Many players are satisfied with High Elves as they exist right now. If Blizzard isn’t, then it is upon Blizzard that the quality is brought up to the point they desire.

It has been noted in this reply that distinction between the two factions is important, especially with faction conflict being prominent. There is no greater symbol of the conflict between the Horde and the Alliance than that of the Blood Elves and the High Elves. Orcs vs. Humans may be the core of the conflict as the major identities of the Horde and Alliance, but Blood Elves vs. High Elves represents the spirit of it. They epitomize this conflict in ways both artful and subtle. Despite having so much in common, there is a brutal shared fear, paranoia, and even hatred which is based entirely in the perspective of each side, which perfectly mirrors that of the greater Horde and Alliance factions. There could be no better race to make playable in an expansion about faction conflict than the High Elves considering this.

The conflict between High Elves and Blood Elves has reached such incredible relevance that it’s become the ideal analogy, as powerful an image of the conflict as the ages old Orcs vs. Humans. One could go so far as to say the absence of the High Elves neuters the quality of faction conflict. Horde players have complained they feel no real attachment to the upcoming conflict, that they feel like villains rather than protagonists. Through these forums alone we see the conflict already between factions, just on the topic of High Elves. Horde players express their desire to wipe them out, Blood Elf players describe them as traitors, bringing up the Purge of Dalaran. It’s the ultimate expression of faction conflict condensed to one single, easy to add Allied Race. High Elves have done more to galvanize faction conflict than any other Allied Race could. At this point it is criminal to leave them out for any reason.

If you won’t add High Elves for the Alliance, at least do it for your Horde players to finally have a target they feel legitimized in attacking.

PART THREE:
THE HORDE IS WAITING FOR YOU

That said, obviously I understand you would love Alliance elves…you’re an Alliance player, and want to be a fair-skinned, light-haired, blue-eyed elf. Sorry? The Horde is there and waiting for you. Eye color is not quite the same but maybe contact lenses in the future, you never know? Anything is possible in the future, but no plans in the near-term to add High Elves as an Allied Race.

Considering how the previous part of the answer raised the issue of faction blurring, this reply is singularly self-defeating and antagonistic. The Horde should not be waiting for players wanting to be High Elves. The Horde should be sharpening their knives in anticipation of facing these players. By suggesting players seeking to play as High Elves should instead join the Horde, this reply is encouraging a blurring of the faction lines.

Not only that but the reply is insulting and once again, brings up the question raised from the first part of the reply. “If you want to play a purple-skinned, white-haired, tall majestic elf, the Alliance is waiting for you.” Except its not. The Horde has those very same options. The Alliance doesn’t have a monopoly on them. Why should the Horde have a monopoly on, “fair-skinned, light-haired, elves?”

It shouldn’t.

CONCLUSION:
ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE IN THE FUTURE

The final words of this response are perhaps the most legitimate. Anything is Possible in the Future. High Elves are possible in the future. Well, they should be more than a possibility. They should be guaranteed. The Horde has no right to monopolize a specific aesthetic anymore than the Alliance does, and the fact this was alluded to as an acceptable answer to the matter is nothing short of ludicrous.

Speculation can be offered on the nature of this highly unsatisfactory answer. Perhaps the most probable is that it is too early to simply state that High Elves will come. Other races haven’t yet received Allied Races to expand on their own customization (Gnomes, Worgen, Forsaken, Goblins, Night Elves, and Blood Elves), and Void Elves still need to find their place in the narrative. Certainly discussing adding High Elves right now would marginalize players who genuinely approve of Void Elves, and players waiting to see what is in store for them and their favorite races which haven’t yet received new customization through Allied Races.

The above having been said, there were better ways to answer the question, but at least it ended with a kernel of hope for players still awaiting High Elves. Perhaps the greatest criticism about this answer, however, lays in how uninformed it is in regards to discussions had by players in what they would like to see with a High Elf Allied Race.
In short this post shall conclude with a question to those working on World of Warcraft at Blizzard themselves:

Why ask we, the players, what we would like to see for Allied Races, if you will reply as if you never listened?

High Elven Community FAQ

CLAIM :There aren’t enough High Elves left, I thought?[quote]

The Silver Covenant, the militarized organization of Dalaran High Elves (which have recently been clarified as being more numerous than once thought), have been present for many of the Alliance’s military operations in the past several expansions and have consistently fielded numbers that would suggest there are plenty of them left.

Similarly, Quel’Danil lodge in the Hinterlands and the Allerian Stronghold in Outland both show other independently organized High Elf forces that are not suffering in numbers.

In addition, Stormwind has its own High Elf population. There is more than enough evidence to suggest High Elves have enough numbers to be appropriate for an Allied Race, especially compared to what has been shown as appropriate for other examples such as the Lightforged or the Void Elves.

Source: In-game representation, out of game official canon text such as Chronicle Vol 3

CLAIM : I don’t want to see any more elves in this game!”
This is a subjective opinion, and a valid one, but not a reasonable argument against other people’s ability to ask for what they would also subjectively like to see.

CLAIM : Void Elves are the substitute
Void Elves were specifically and deliberately set up as being recent exiles from Silvermoon among the Blood Elf population. Their presence does not continue the separate High Elf story in any way and thus is not a reason for them not to be added.

{b]CLAIM[/b]: High Elves = Blood Elves = Void Elves
Both the in-game lore and the out of game official canon texts have very clearly set up the Thalassian elves as a split people, and the themes of mutual High Elf and Blood Elf resentment for each other is what led to the creation of the Silver Covenant in the first place. Furthermore, Chronicle has drawn further attention to the fact on some level this split was in the process of happening before Kael’Thas even renamed those who followed him to Blood Elves: tensions existed between the High Elves who chose to live in Dalaran and those who lived in Silvermoon, the latter considering the former to prefer the company of humans over the love of their own homeland.

Sources: In-game representation and lore as presented through Alliance questing, as well as out-of-game official canon text such as Chronicle Vol 3.

CLAIM : High Elves will cause population bleed on Horde side.
Considering Allied Races have so far required extra steps, such as having a max level character on the appropriate faction and gating behind reputations, along with the fact that Allied Races also have restricted class options (Death Knight and Demon Hunter are both very popular classes and would likely not be available), this outcome is unlikely. Adding to that, the fact that Horde edges out Alliance population-wise slightly at max level, and the fact that Void Elves, which brought the Blood Elf model to the Alliance to begin with, did not impact overall faction balance, and this is very likely not a very serious concern.

This text was created by Alurna@Moon-guard and had it’s HTML changed by Pontifice@Azralon.

Edit: Title was changed from
High Elves as an Alliance allied race to
Quel’dorei High Elves as an Alliance allied race

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/high-elf-allied-race-megathread-continuation/182516

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/high-elf-positivity-thread/472406

You have my seal of approval

Kitiaara-argent-dawn · April 4, 2023, 4:38am

Awww, you are just saying that; you’re only trying to be nice to me
But thanks
And don’t worry, your Master Ragnaros will be back and you can burn the world

Moltensage-turalyon · April 4, 2023, 8:06am

Everybody keeps talking about Ragnarons. For some Dark Irons Ragnaros is just a phase and even then it was among our Shaman.
We get it. Draenai can be evil too. But Eredar are something else entirely.

Moontear-ravencrest · April 4, 2023, 7:06pm

It’s actually older. Two before were capped post limit. Started if not mistaken in 2016. Since forums were reworked can not find older topics.

Yes. Because people still want them playable.

shamans too!

Bornelock-turalyon · April 4, 2023, 7:07pm

And we still can’t research any topics or replies which were posted during Vanilla 2005 and 2006

Moontear-ravencrest · April 4, 2023, 7:10pm

True. But i was about this topic exactly. It was created in 2016 just continuing.

Torchia-defias-brotherhood · April 4, 2023, 7:42pm

By people you mean you? No thanks, enough elf races. Elves got so much love from the devs, the rest of the playable races can’t even fantasize about. Get lost.

Aldø-zuljin · April 6, 2023, 4:51am

No, not only him.

Moltensage-turalyon · April 6, 2023, 10:03am

Since 2016 eh? Fine I will take your word for it.
7 years is remarkably consistent.

Vaîheîîa-stormscale · April 6, 2023, 2:41pm

So much negativity on these forums why not ? More playable races the better and may bring more players to the game blizzard under estimate the power of playable races.

Erevien-dun-morogh · April 6, 2023, 3:12pm

Doomhammer didn’t break his promise. The Amani were too stupid to realize defeating the humans had priority over taking Silvermoon. Big difference.

Kaiine-argent-dawn · April 6, 2023, 3:27pm

Exactly.

I welcome playable High Elves, just as long as they have a completely different look than Blood Elves. I would suggest new hairstyles, including those shared with Night Elves, Humans and Kul’Tiran.

Possibly have them start in Crystalsong Forest so the canon war in that zone was for the Alliance.

Vaîheîîa-stormscale · April 6, 2023, 4:18pm

Yeah but also would not mind if they gave the same hairstyles. They should go back to having a new race come for each faction with a new expansion model it gives people something to look forward to aswell.