Quel’dorei High Elves as an Alliance allied race (Part 1)

Community General Discussion
7537

Sylvannas outside of the Forsaken and the Horde is a dangerous element. Yeah if she just remains in the Maw then it would mean that she is not dealt with.
Problem is that Sylvannas as a character has too large of a fanbase. So will see her return at some point.

Repairing relations as the “daughter of the sea” is one thing. But should Sylvannas learn in the Maw the means to create new Valkyr this brings back the threat of Undeath to the Alliance.
The Retribution Paladin artefact weapon demonstrates the Light consecrating the graves so that the dead will remain dead.

Calia Menethil has betrayed the living of Lordaeron. She done nothing for long after the fall of Lordaeron and simply showed up in the Priest Order Hall during Legion.
This is not something that will sit well. But perhaps finally the living people of Lordaeron accept they are not a country or people anymore. Or there is a new ruler that they can rally behind.

Sylvannas done so much damage to the living including the Horde. However there will still be Sylvannas loyalists. Even among the living of the Horde.
It is a real chin scratcher how Blizzard will move forward.

Yes you are correct. 7th Legion not S17.
The Wildhammers could help to rally the scattered remnants of the High Elves. Some High Elves lived in Theramore before it was bombed by Garrosh.
The rivalry/hatred is mainly pushed by the Silver Covenant but there are other High Elves outside of them.

The main confusion is that there have not been enough distinction between High Elves and Blood Elves.
When it comes to the Troll Tribes the difference between Sand Trolls - Frost Trolls - Jungle Trolls is obvious.
High Elves as a race are not part of the Alliance. 7th Legion and Silver Covenant are just random groups and individuals doing their own thing.

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7538

Their is also a version with Sylvanas on it.

So, what happens to the Sylvanas fans who are on the Horde?

This is just Alliance fans demanding something from the Horde and it’s very unfair. Your just saying here “Screw you if you play Horde. Sylvanas should be Alliance. Want to quest with her? Pay to transfer then.”

No - Sylvanas should ALWAYS be Horde learning. Irrespective of the contrary.

I don’t understand why Alliance players just want to take a character, who is infamous for being Horde and still is Horde-leaning, over to the Alliance which would just infuriate a large portion of the Horde fanbase. Regardless of my views on her fanbase, Sylvanas is popular with a lot of players.

Alliance has got Vereesa, Alleria, Auric and many other High Elves to make a playable race with new features.

Sylvanas should be the Horde-leaning/neutral character who maintains ties between Quel’Thalas and more specifically, the Blood Elven Farstriders.

EDIT:
I do have a feeling that both Sylvanas and Illidan will return at the same time, since both have the popularity. The problem is though - both are now heavily tied to Tyrande’s lore and I do need a break from her, to be honest.

7539

Yes they are part of the Alliance, but a “faction” of High elves, Just like Blood elves are a “Faction” of High elves. The Stormwind Humans are a “Faction” of Humans part or the Alliance. The other Humans are different factions. So overall its just factions of a race that part of a larger faction so not “entire” race. Is the Grimtotem tribe of taurens with the Horde?..no? considering the Alliance helped the Grimtotem to fight the Horde in Stonetalon mountains, now why would they do that if taurens are part of the Horde?? In thosands needles Grimtotem is hunting Bloodhoof tribe trying to escape. Why are they doing that if “all” Taurens are part of the Horde? So its comes down to factions of a race that either is part or the Horde or Alliance.

If the Syndicate Humans join the Horde, that would make sense as they were with the Horde for a time back in Warcraft 2 as they are a different faction of Humans that do not support the Alliance or Stormwind and have been at odds with Alliance for long time. Ofcourse there has to be some difference between them and Stormwind humans so they can be recognized from afar. Altough best canditade to get them to join the Horde would have been Trade Prince Jastor Gallywix as they share common goal. But he is not in the Horde anymore.

No its not, and you know that. its because She has “changed” when she got her other half of the soul. If she was like the same Banshee she was before I would not care. But her approach is different now then she was when she was in the Horde. And I actually like this new Sylvanas. That’s why.

Have you forgotten the other blood elves characters?

Lor’themar Theron = Farstrider altough he acts like a warrior now than Farstrider.

Halduron Brightwing = Farstrider General, Altough he was absent during the scourge second attack on Quel’thalas for some reason and his Farstriders even if it is his Job to protect Silvermoon and Quel’thalas. What could have been more important for him?? After he has been going on for years to protect Silvermoon since TBC.

And there are other but im not going to dig deeper.

7540

And yet, she’s still Horde-leaning, whichever way you want to spin it.

Irrelevant.

Blood Elves have so many forgotten characters who could easily come back, like the aforementioned.

The Sunreaver Ranger Captain, Elsya as well as those Farstriders at the Enclaves, who were expanded in the Sylvanas novel.

And Blood Elves aren’t important to the new Alliance High Elf race, of which their are others whom you can look towards and don’t need Sylvanas Windrunner.
I mean - you could easily make the High Elf Rangers into some sort “Frost Mage-Archer” which ties into their Mage and Ranger lore and (providing they were based in Crystalsong Forest) is most fitting.

7541

The Alliance have been trying to take out Sylvannas for some time. When she was still in Undercity it was fun to take her out for the old pvp achievements.
There is a lot of things that can not be undone. The atrocities that she has committed. Not just that but now Sylvannas is carrying the legacy of the Lich King despite Bolvar Fordragon being on the frozen throne.

To be more specific. The fear of Undeath. That either in old age - sickness - injury or murder. At some point there will be a Sylvannas that would raise you to Undeath. What was done to Derek Proudmoore will be done to others.
Not just the atrocities committed against the Forsaken but the Gilneans as well.

Sylvannas chilling in the Alliance won’t work. No matter how they try to retcon things.
Then there is the burning of Teldrassil. Once again the Horde murdering defenceless civilians and children as the Horde has done before.
That reminded Vaurok Saurfang of the Old Horde.

Blizzard will not allow Sylvannas to be permanently killed.
Sylvannas Windrunner is NOT a High Elf. She is just another Undead.
During the Siege of Orgrimmar. Should the Horde side fail then Sylvannas raises Lorthemar Theron into Undeath.

Sylvannas will always be Horde. Except she was always best behind the scenes. But Blizzards mistake was to make her front and centre.

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7542

For years this discussion has been going on, and for years High elves / Blood elf players have pointed out the reason why this cannot and should not happen.

In the Lore it clearly states that the High elves stepped away from the Alliance.
The High elves after the attack of the scourge, renamed themselves blood elves in honor of their dead.

When the High Elves now named Blood elves tried once again to aid the Alliance which was under the command of Othmar Garithos. They was treated with extreme xenophobia. Which lead to Garithos finding a excuse to commit all the healthy and strong remaining High elves / Blood Elves to death.

In the campaign you can see how they would have been sentenced to genocide. Also why Keal led them to outland, yes he may have gone mad. But in that instance he did so to save what was left of the High elves.

There maybe friction among the high elves, but they will not forget why they moved away from the Alliance in Lore in the first place. As well as second they will never forget the horrors of the Alliance under the command of Othmar Garithos.

The Blood elves not wanting a contamination of the sun well again ( or whats left of it ).
Refused the void elves, and cast them out. Leaving them only one path to turn to, The Alliance. Which fits with their leader.

The struggles for survival, being their own community, ideals of strength and honor. Such as taking on the name in honor of the fallen High elves. Or improving their skills, seeking to unlock more power or gaining insight to preserve their people.

These are things that make them fit well within the Horde. Even in the blood elf starting area, they are once again betrayed by the Alliance. I see no self respecting High elf, wanting to join the Alliance after all that has happened.

Look I feel for you, but this discussion has to end. Part of the high elves have returned to you, because there was no other place for them to go. They have evolved into the void elves. They to are High elves, and thus I see no point in the discussion which many players already said enough reason why it has no point anymore.

That said the Void elves are a nice and unique tribe of High elves. They are worthy in their own right to be as they are.

One could say both Blood elves and Void elves are descendants to the High elves. As they have / are evolving, just as they evolved from the Night elves from long ago.
The Silver Convenant will pass, the tiny settlements will pass.

Then all that remains will be the Blood Elves and the Void elves.
The two strongest surviving groups of High Elves.

7543

Brann Bronzebeard said about the High Elf race.
“The remaining High Elves are sadly too few in number to play a major role in things right now… but I expeect as the years pass they will rebuild and prove themselves a great boon to the Alliance.”

The High Elves have a good relationship with the Dwarves. Not just Wildhammers but I think Bronzebeards as well.
So they can not really be a part of the Alliance in any significant way. Not as they are right now.
The Grimtotem aren’t they an off-shoot of the Bloodhoof? Just as the Taunka in Pandaria and the other ones in Northrend that I forgot their names.

The Bloodhoof tribe are part of the Horde. The Grimtotems are part of the Horde when it is convenient. Magatha Grimtotem as far as I know has not been banished from Orgrimmar. She asked for Garrosh help to take/hold Thunderbluff. Magathat was even able to get close enough to poison Garrosh weapon that slayed Carine Bloodhoof in Makgora.

Not all humans are part of the Alliance. Which is why when Sylvannas murdered Calia Menethil the Alliance done nothing to save Calia or avenge her.
Cults are one thing but active collaborators against the Alliance is another.

The Bloodhoof could have exterminated the Grimtotems but simply chose banishment. The Alliance does have an interest in prolonging conflicts among the Horde.

For example. One or two High Elves taken part in Alliance operations does not mean the High Elves themselves are an Alliance member. The Alliance might ‘safeguard’ others but membership is something else entirely.

7544

Not all of the High Elf remnants renames themselves Blood Elves. Most joined Kaelthas Sunstrider but some did not. Those that followed Kaelthas renamed themselves Blood Elves the rest that refused to follow Kaelthas remained as High Elves.

Even after they returned from their party with Illidan Stormrage and getting addicted to the Fel. The separation and schism was very adamant.
The issue is that due to MOST of the Scourge survivors jumping ship to become Blood Elves. Some think that they are all the same. But are not.

7545

Agreed that most renamed themselves Blood elves. I would say the overall great Majority. We look back on the lore mostly in complete ways, but actually we should look at it in the fragments of that time period.

The King is fallen, Kaelthas has to return to the capital to lead his people. Now there is a huge amount of time before all the fel stuff. As in a huge amount of things happening.
Would it not be so that just by taking the throne, the mantle of leadership if the King or Prince decides it is so? I mean if the King of stormwind says A.b.c it is so, same with other kings or leadership.

If we look at the time. People was crawling in the streets, holding on trying to remain in their form. Struggling not to become the wretched when the source that feeds the was no longer there. In this case the Sun well gone, used by Arthas.

I see no reason why not the greatest of the majority would take up the name. The heir to the throne, their point of pride and strength remaining, in this extremely tragic dramatic and dangerous moment. Said that by degree, as a King or Prince would say count for all the people.

Surely in the time period Kaelthas Sunstrider did no harm, just led and protected his people. I wonder after the most devastating thing, that happened to their race. How little, how tiny the % of Elves would keep calling themselves High Elves.

Remember nothing about the fel stuff happened yet. Their pride and strength, the prince came back from Dalaran. In this period he is working his butt off to help his people. Now he realizes he needs help, and gathers all those strong enough to still do things and heads to the Alliance. We know the story. But the rest of the Elves do not get back on its feet until Kealthas sends them, the Naaru and the Fel crystals. Because they was struggling to not turn into the wretched.

Which brings up another question. How did the tiny portion of High elves even survive during this time when the sun well was cut off? ( maybe a good reason but, I don’t know it ) Whatever it is, it must be a tiny source then. Not as strong as the Sunwell, Fel, Naaru or the Void.

Which would support my idea of only two will remain:

The Void Elves: Sustaining power linked from the void
The Blood Elves: Sustaining power by the sunwell

This is ofc just a interesting discussion :slight_smile:

7546

First and foremost I don’t understand at this point after the several mass-murder of the lore, the in-game character, faction identity in the late expansions, that giving the Alliance a standalone, real high elf playable faction (instead of the cheap voidelf Sadidas ripoff) is still a “big immersion break” for many people.
We don’t want just a skincolor version, but the faction lore immersion behind it, like I play as a high elf character who’s group remained faithful to the Alliance.

It could been done very easily.
-Vareesa Windrunner after the recent wars tries to pull together the remaining loyalist high elves scattered around Azeroth. She calls help from old allies, like our character.
-There is a meeting held, discussions, plans how to reach and persuade the different groups, then the Silverwing Covenant and friends take on the journey.
-We visit each lodges, help with local problems, etc, and convince them to join the elf alliance
-If you want you can insert some blood elf conflict, to spice things up, and at the end an Alliance high elf league is formed.

And after that you can make high elf characters in the alliance with no problem.

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7547

Well at this moment Veressa has place her self more or less neutral, leaning Alliance.
But not part of the Alliance. Who says she will not return home to Silvermoon now the sunwell has been restored, and the horde and Alliance are working more together.

Also Veressa knows the reason why they stepped away from the Alliance in the first place.

The Lodges are neutral. They did not go back to Silvermoon, but why would they not?
They have no hard relations with the Alliance, same reason the sun well is restored.

Why not have Veressa windrunner have a meeting with Lor’themar Theron?
They know each other, they grew up with each other.

When Sylvanas returns as her restored self, having completed her tasks.
Would she not be the right person to guide her sister?

Maybe Veressa Windrunner will travel the to the lodges with other blood elves and together reunite the Elves under one banner.

Then those not willing will answer the call of the void, and fallow Alleria and join the Alliance.

It can go both ways really, or stay in the middle.
Sooner or later the factions of elves will turn to one of the two strongest groups left.

The void elves are not some cheap thing. They are their own unique worthy race, which has evolved. As also the blood elves have evolved. There is nothing wrong with Void elves, they are a very nice race to play. With their own interesting story. I am sorry you feel that way about them. I believe that most void elf players who enjoy them, would disagree with you on that though.

7548

I enjoy the back and forth. It is impossible for 1 person to know all of the Lore. Even the famous red-shirt guy had to remind the Blizzard Devs of their own lore.

So by bouncing your knowledge off each other you could learn something you did not know or pass on something that others did not know.

You are correct. The mana addiction did cripple all of them. I don’t know how the High Elves kicked the addiction. But there has the be more story telling between the wars and conflicts. Silvermoon being defeated by Arthas and the Scourge would have left them in a very bad place.

There are probably other sources of mana and magic in the World on Azeroth itself. Like the Leylines.

There is probably a reason why the High Elves chose to no longer follow Kaelthas the last of the Sunstrider bloodline. He did not lead his people to a good place which is with Lorthemar Theron had to take over. He did fight alongside of living Sylvannas but as you know she later went on to create the Forsaken faction.

The Light and the Void despite being the very elements of creation that created the WoW universe. Seem to be eternal adversaries. So a Void Well can’t really be side by side with the Sunwell.
Alleria’s presence during the Void Elf intro quest is proof of it.

7549

oops typo. I mean Vareesa reaction to the Sunwell.

7550

To be honest, that is the biggest FU from the writers part to justify their story
I mean shadow pirest (and to a degree, discipline ones) and warlcoks are free to roam free , one is summonning literal entities of the Void, and throwing Void Bolts, the other is insane and drenched in shadows and void… yet the Sun Well not reacted them.

But what happened happened
Hate it, but happened

7551

She won’t. Dalaran has always been a second or main home after she married her human Dalaran husband. Now she has mixed children and it’s almost impossible to move back to Silvermoon, why would she when her entire family are dead besides Alleria who is on the alliance side.

Which lodges? Allerian stronghold and Highvale (Hinterlands) are very very alliance.

During Cataclysm the Ranger general of Silvermoon ( Halduron Brightwing) called the Silver covenant for help with dealing with the Amani, since the blood army was busy doing something else.

When Lor’themar heared this, he became pissed as it was suggested Vereesa is banished from Silvermoon.

Vereesa reply shows she is not fond of Lor’themar either. It is clear they had beaf/ drama before. Keep in mind this is before the Purge of Dalaran.

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7552

It was hinted that the High elves of Dalaran used Mana/ Arcane crystals to feed their hunger, including Vereesa. That is why their eyes are still blue/ violet, reflecting the arcane.

Meanwhile, the Highvale (hinterlands) elves abandoned magic all together, and focused on Farstrider/ warrior abilities instead. They followed the Night elves no magic policy and if I’m not mistaken, I even remember seeing a Moon well in the zone (which is how the night elves controlled their magical hunger)

7553

I thought it was through meditation, much like the Highborne of Eldre’Thalas, when they were exiled from their city

That’s quite strange since, at that time, the whole Night Elf / High Elf relationship was not all that positive.

Still - their was a portal to the Emeral Dream so it’s possible Night Elf Druids might have interacted with the Highvale Quel’dorei.

7554

Your absolutely right, I am also no expert on the lore. Though I do enjoy the lore they have built over the years :slight_smile: Also good point with the red shirt guy, some things are also just not flushed out in the lore.

Well I think that is a great positive attitude. It’s nice to read that and aye I am no expert :slight_smile:

This is good answer, I can see them being able to sustain themselves at least with Ley lines. Would also fit a neutral stance. Would be nice if we got some more info from Blizz about such things.

I can see why they no longer choose to follow Kaelthas. So what would their reaction be?
In the moment Kaelthas was still sane and had come back to help enz. Did they then go along with well the prince has stated it, and its the most traumatic event of our race.
So in honor of the dead we go along and call our selves Blood elves as well.

But when later Kaelthas led them down a bad path. The other Blood elves kept the name but in honor of the dead, not because of Kaelthas. But the elven lodges then discarded it because of Kaelthas, even if it was in the honor of the dead and took up the name High elves again?

As one of the first things Kaelthas did was carry the name for the honored dead. As it had changed them as a people. So looking in the moment, that fragment of the lore. Looking through the eyes of those elves, living in that moment. As we make our choices in the present, so they would then as well.

I am just trying to look through their eyes, and thinking how this could all have worked out.

Nicely put, they cannot exist side by side.
But was it not Alleria instead of Veressa wind runner?
I may be a bit confused, thinking of rolling a void elf.
Have not yet seen everything, so i could be a bit confused :slight_smile:

7555

I am glad you can think of them that way, but for me unfortunately they will remain a recton tool, when story devs tried to neutralise the void. In my honest opinion they could have been an alliance npc facton, but nothing more. The concept of a void worshipper cult joining the Light focused Alliance is weird in my book.

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7556

My bad in this one, I looked it up. I have not been there for ages. Never done any quests relating to the lodge. I played alliance in vannila on and off. So for me they actually just stood there, being there. I guess over time it has become more involved.

About Veressa, if yah read the more recent books. It is not like there is no room for development in that area. Certainly if she is someone who can help guide Sylvanas.
All the elves still respect the Ranger General, who she was. If she truly is a different elf, I can see bridges that can be built, and wounds that can be mended.

Dalaran I could understand with the crystals enz. A moon well? I guess it could be. But sounds really un High elfy to me.

If it where to be the case though, they would be becoming more Wood elves then High Elves. Which Night elves actually are, in a classical sense. I would not know what kinda High elf wood elf hybrid would come from that. As they are now feeding on nature magic. I do find it interesting, it would make for a 3rd party of sub type elves.

High Elves in the fantasy sense are always about High Magic in the genre.
Basically what the Blood elves still have the most of.