I love this xD You’re now starting to feel how I felt 50 pages ago eating popcorn
Totally agree with Maidel and Vaellir.
No, he’s not. He’s actually proactive in this debate and debunking arguments - others, however (don’t want to point at anyone, don’t want to start an endless pointless discussion), are just repeating themselves without counterarguing anything and even contradicting themselves for some odd reason.
High elves in the mangas had longer beards. I don’t think high elves lost facial hair when departing from the kaldorei. I think it’s about “common fashion trends” among the high and blood elves, represented in what styles are available to playable characters.
Just for the sake of debate, and not really that I support the idea of having any real physical differences between quel’- and sin’dorei, but blood elves who call themselves guards look different from blood elves who call themselves civilians and heroes. Blood/high elf ghosts who died less than fifteen years ago, have (incorporeal) bodies that look different from living high/blood elves (they use old models). Blizzard has decided to let different groups within the same people look different, where there’s no biological reasons for them to look different.
I, however, prefer high elves to look like blood elves with blue eyes, and perhaps a few, slight changes, such as hairstyles and perhaps a few others, that won’t make them biologically different from their blood elven sisters.
NO! Gods, Sun, Moon, Light, Void, just no! Please! Let void elves be void elves, and don’t try to weasel some bizarre quasi-high elven mongrels into that race by adding those options! Please no!
This is the problem. Am I pro High Elves being playable? Yes. However if it means all the changes people are suddenly asking for, then absolutely not!
You are asking me to make a nonsensical thing make sense, and that I cannot do. I mean the Blood Elf Accent is more a Transatlantic one, than American, but yes, Void Elves speaking differently makes no sense.
Nor are the Blood Elves…you might be confusing them with the Felblood Elves, who are indeed red of skin. What I mean by different skin colours is that it makes no sense. Seriously, look at my avatar, you want something paler than -that-? They wouldn’t -need- different skin colours is my point, because the option is already there with the existing model.
I said, and have always said, that different hairstyles -would- make sense, even explaining my thinking as to why. Void Elves being able to grow beards whereas Blood Elves and High Elves seemingly cannot (Apart from Anasterian) however makes zero sense.
I’m sorry if it came across that way, it was more meant to seem jovial chiding, than condescending. And no, I do not know what they meant, skin colour had been covered…I was wondering if they meant colours as in a version of the Heritage armour but in different colours.
That’s probably a valid point, I’m not going to trawl Suramar looking for one, going back to tattoos and Warpaint, as I say, there are three NPC’s who have them. Kael’thas has tattoos according to the TBC box art, Rommath has tattoos (Or Warpaint, it is hard to tell just from the model) and Alleria has Warpaint (I think it is unlikely to be a tattoo). These are all examples of people who were of Quel’thalas. Of those, one was a Prince, one is the Grand Magister, and one was a Ranger-Captain. At this point, put the Blood/High Elf split to one side, it hasn’t happened yet in the period I refer to.
So there we have the only three examples of -major- characters who have warpaints/tattoos.
Next consider the actual ‘High Elf Ranger’ portraits from WC2. Still before the split, and they definitely have Warpaint. In fact they have red Warpaint, and this is still before they named themselves Blood Elves. That doesn’t happen until part way through WC3.
At no point is there any indication that Warpaint is a Quel’dorei alone thing. It seems to be a Thalassian thing in general. If Blood Elves got those options as well as Quel’dorei therefore, then I would be absolutely cool and groovy with it, if they did not however, then it makes no lore sense, That’s my argument. I tried to keep it joke free, but I am by nature a flippant soul, so found it hard.
That’s my headcanon as well. It just isn’t the ‘trend’ to grow beards, and yet, Lor’themar’s new model has one, and Anasterian didn’t die -that- long ago. Suddenly Void Elves having beards is just weird though. But yeah, Brigante commonly makes a joke about the one time he tried to grow a beard as an adolescent, and how ridiculous he looked, so never has tried since.
Blizz acknowledged that was a mistake, and in fact it is a mistake they have now rectified, the Blood Elf city guards now use the Blood Elf player model (and also are both male and female with different faces, instead of looking like some weird clone type armed force). Fun fact, I -think- this now make…Oh, I was going to say Darnassus’ guards the only ones that are of one gender only, then realised that was probably a ‘Too Soon’ moment… But Yeah, Silvermoon and Darnassus were the only cities where the guard models -were- one gender only. Now no longer, for uh, yeah, different reasons…
It gets even better than that…remember the old Banshee models, and how Banshees are dead female Elves? (With the possible exception of Blind Mary in Duskwood) The models used to look Elven. Check out the new Banshee models, even the ones who are -definitely- Elven canonically. Yeah, Blizz goofed. None of them have Elf ears anymore, even the ones who previously did. They all look like dead humans.
Sometimes Blizzard goof. I think the Ghosts thing was one of those times, because they don’t even use Elven models any more since the recent change.
As for everyone getting to choose how their character stands, Oh gods Yes that would be Glorious!
It’s all down to being edgy and dark and oh, so brooding.
It will always be too soon. Vengeance for Teldrassil! Death to the banshee queen, and all that jazz.
Yeah, that’s just weird. Weird!
What would be awesome is if all races got a few choices in body types, and generally more customisation options. World of Warcraft’s character customisation is ridiculously outdated when compared other mmorpgs.
High elves have models in-game, and moving away from those would quite honestly be moving away from playable high elves, and into something else.
If people honestly believe that Blizzard, when the High Elves come, will just copy paste Blood Elves with blue eyes, then i must say, the anti - high elves are totally, 100%, right. That will never ever happen. The High Elf community making arts and doing projects etc are not doing it just for fun, they are showing Blizzard that there are multiple ways to implement them that do make sense. Because they know, as Blizzard does, that copying pasting Blood Elves will never ever happen
The only way, and the way i stand behind, we will ever see the High Elves is either they get a Nightborne treatment where they have different idle stance, probably different skin colors (like i said giving them a half elf option) and different customizations from the Blood Elves, look at the Void Elves for example, they have different hairstyles etc even though they haven’t even been removed from the other Blood Elves for not even a year so don’t come with “ooh but those things take TIME to change”. OR they will do what a poster already said, give the Void Elves unturned skin colors.
So instead of some of you trying to push everyone in a corner begging for something that will never happen aka copy paste the blood elves. At least try to be more creative with your arguments.
Brig is confusing a lot of things. He thinks an idle stance is linked to physical attributes and specie. As if all of us humans stand and pose and wave our hand the same way.
Idle stance is just the way a person stands, due to game limitations they give every NPC and player of that said race the same idle stance, High Elves having a different idle stance from the Blood Elves in game has nothing to do with lore or heritage or whatever, it’s just the playable model.
Also Void Elves are Sin’dorei, that were just turned, not even a year of separation but somehow they have a different accent, different hairstyles, beards hell even face options. Which all make sense, why? Because it’s a game and a race needs some features you’ll recognize them with.
That only supports my unique model High Elves. Copy paste blood elves will just never happen.
Half elves might be an option, but not integrated directly into the high elves - fullblooded high elves should be just that. If some of the blood elven skin tones have come around because of fel influences, it might be an idea to consider removing those from high elves, (but then again, Outland high elves…) but adding skintones to regular high elves sounds weird.
Different hairstyles is something I think everyone has agreed with.
Or a violent encounter with crazy void energies…
Absolutely not. Either high elves or not high elves. Void elves are not high elves!
What he’s saying is that cultural changes don’t occur massively in groups quite like that, in such short spans of time (especially considering the longevity of elves). It’s not that everyone moves in the same ways, but that huge cultural changes take longer time. Changing high elf movements drastically from blood elves would indicate a very synthetic cultural shift.
This is weird.
This is void. (The void is literally integrated into their hair!)
Void, mood, actual cultural differences due to physical, mental and emotional changes.
Probably the same. To be fair, the game is sorely lacking in facial customisation.
Void elves would be just as easily recognizable without those beards and faces, but it surely adds flavour, which I believe was the reasons for those changes.
That’s speculation. High elves already have functioning models in game, and they’re really not hard to recognize as high, and not blood elves.
Then stop asking for High Elves. I mean that -is- what High Elves are. That is, in lore, and in current game depiction, what High Elves are.
Hang on, did someone call me out for being condescending and yet a phrase like -this- slips below everyone’s radar? “You should maybe learn to read”. I think you owe them an apology Maidel.
I love the fact (I haven’t unlocked them myself, but have seen them on my Alliance toons) that there is an actual option for Void Elves to have a proper villain twiddly moustache, That’s just hilarious.
Tell me about it, Brigante just got released from gaol just because he opposed the Forsaken when they wanted to torture Alliance POW’s to death (AD Is awesome…its seriously awesome for RP stuff)
Yeah, I completely agree. Brigante is basically a Pitbull Terrier on two legs, He is very short in stature, but he is compact, and looks aggressive, small but stocky. You just can’t reflect that with the models. Star Wars TOR did it better, although also they did it worse, as I remember, with that, you made all the sliding scales then logged your character and went “Oh, that looks crap” Whereas at least with WoW you have a ‘Try before you buy’ option of “Oh, that looks crap, I’ll change it”
That’s exactly my point. We know what High Elves look like, they are in game.
Then High Elves should never happen. Which would be sad for people who want them, but yes, if they do not want High Elves, but want the US fan picture idea of High Elves, then yes, they should never happen. Because those are not High Elves.
They -are- doing it just for fun. They’re not being paid, this is because of a concept that they will enjoy…They are doing it for fun…I mean that is the definition of why they are doing it.
They are not showing them multiple ways to implement them that make sense. That is the opposite of what they are doing. The way to implement them that makes sense is the Blood Elf Model, Blue Eyes. Maybe different Haircuts. Anything else, and you are moving into the realms of “You do not want High Elves” territory.
Different skin colours makes no sense. What different skin colour would you like your High Elf to have, that is not possible as a Blood Elf? I don’t understand. What shade of pale white do you want, that isn’t pale white? I mean if you’re asking for Non Caucasian (In our world) Elves, then cool, but if not I genuinely don’t understand what special skin colour you think is even possible. I mean that would be defining a colour that does not yet exist, What colour were you thinking of?
You possibly might want to reflect upon some of your own, and rather impolitely delivered advice. Read what others say. Do not Presume.
A Different Idle stance makes no sense. Unless that is an option to be rolled out to every single Race in the game. I wouldn’t object to that, but insisting upon it for High Elves is neither lore friendly, nor particularly considerate, if it is for them alone.
Different Skin colours. We have been over this, What different skin colours would you like?
A Half Elf Option? Sure, but that’s a different Allied Race, that’s not what people here want. And fair play to them.
No. Do not. Do not look at the Void Elves as an example of how it can be done, Look at the Void elves as an example as to how it can be badly done.
They don’t make sense. Their models. Lets leave aside the whole Void thing, Their actual models, do not make sense. You can’t use something that makes no sense, to try and push a sensible request, that way lies folly.
I really am not, I am simply recognising the fact that we are talking about characters in a computer game. So do we all get customisations of our Idle Actions then, or just HIgh Elves? I mean what makes them so special as a race that they don’t…stand like the rest of their race. Because I forgot that bit where Huojin and Tushui stood different due to political affiliation. Perhaps because it never happened.
You’re saying it makes sense, whilst ignoring a basic point.
-None- of that makes sense. None of it. They do not make sense. Void Elves as a concept? Sure, The rest of it, no, they do not make sense, I try, really hard, to take them seriously in RP, but it is so hard at times.
You aren’t getting it. High Elves -are- a Copy Paste of the Blood Elves, with blue eyes. That’s what they are in game and in lore. If you want something else, like the oddballs in the US, then take that to a different thread, they are not asking for High Elves.
I already answered this, not going to bother. Try again.
It does, as seen by the Nightborne.
Yes we will definitely look at Void Elves for example, it’s Blizzard that implements races, and if that’s the way they imagine them, then so be it. Your opinion about copy pasting the Blood Elves will not actually get us the High Elves, it’s what Blizzard decides. And when they decide that their playable models should look unique to some degree, there is nothing you can do or cry about.
You are at this point just utterly confused. But i already replied to all the points you made 10 times by now.
This will be the last time i post in this thread as it turned into something that i don’t agree with nor with the demands in it as i don’t see them ever coming into the game in the state they are being asked for.
I believe the Alliance should and will get the High Elves, that is supported by both the lore and the MMORPG game itself.
I stand by my point that the problem of sharing a model can easily be fixed, like Blizzard did before with other races that share the same model, by making the playable model unique yet stay true to the fantasy and heritage of that race. Be it the way they stand, their manners when they cast their spells, you name it the options are endless to make a group of people standout from the others.
The population should also not be an issue since we have playable races currently that are fewer in numbers than the Quel’dorei.
It’s really all in Blizzard’s hands now, they need to make this magic happen. We did all we could and i know i alteast did my part for the community. We will see what the future holds for this game and playable Quel’dorei.
Except you did not? I specifically pointed out that you had not answered the question, and so rephrased it.
A Nation Ten Thousand years apart. Not just over Ten.
Undoubtedly, but here we are -discussing- playable High Elves, we are not actually Blizzard developers deciding their implementation, so there is no harm in us exchanging opinions.
Then I will regard them as ridiculous, lore breaking, and will just get over it. Why do you feel this need to write ‘Cry about it’?’ It is a very modern sentiment to imply such, that disagreeing with something automatically means tears before bedtime. I am not certain why that is…
I have absolutely no confusion whatsoever. You however do seem to harbour such. You have not replied to a single point I have made ten times by now. We have not even directly corresponded ten times, so such would be some weird impossibility…
Good, let us hope so, your presence recently has been an incredibly unpleasant and unreasonable one. If you could leave this thread to people who actually want to discuss High Elves as a playable race, I am certain that would be vastly appreciated by all.
Now, Back on Topic…
What do people think about High Elf Heritage armour, would it be similar to Blood Elf stuff just in different colours, or do you think there would be a different sort of motif to it?
I reckon probably so, but definitely in the same way as the Belf Heritage armour, as you can see from my set, you mix and match it with other armour sets and can create something snacky as hell.
Now a Silver Covenant theme would be good, but what form would that take, as opposed to ‘Blood Elf but in Blue and Silver instead of Red and Gold’?
I’m still toying with ideas, but you know Varian’s old armour, with the shoulder pads/Pauldrons. Instead of an eagles wings, just an eagles head incorporated into the Pauldrons, similar to the new Alliance set with the Lion in the Pauldrons? But possibly picked out in Silver, against Blue, for emphasis?
It would work, but I was thinking more along the lines of the TBC Windchanneller’s Regalia questing set.
Use that as a baseline, add more SC colour themes and extras, then you’ve got something unique and not a complete copy of the BE HA
Your wet fantasy of how a playable High Elf should look like is not shared by everyone that wants them playable. Deal with it. In fact even YOU don’t know what you want, weren’t you just called out for saying “It’s okay to give High Elves the Night Elven model” then completely backtracking? Being quiet could work for you sometimes ^____^
I guess we share the same feelings :O. Don’t reply to my comment in the first place trying to lecture me about something we both agreed upon in past posts then expect not to get lectured back. Backtracking is something you love to do so it seems haha.