Raid Adjustments Discussion

With weekly maintenance in each region, we’re applying some hotfixes to raid encounters as a step toward their final tuning.

Serpentshrine Caverns

  • Morogrim Tidewalker – Tidewalker Lurkers’ health has been reduced to their post-nerf values.

  • Lady Vashj – Persuasion no longer provides crowd control immunity.

Tempest Keep

  • Kael’thas Sunstrider – The encounter is now set to its post-nerf configuration.

Again, these adjustments will be live following maintenance early tomorrow, 10 November.

Upon further review, we’ve decided to give this at least a week and discuss it some more. We will not be implementing the changes above with maintenance.

We’ll continue to look for your feedback here and update you with our revised plan, if any, in the next couple of days.

November 15

We’re still discussing this and looking at options from a design perspective. We haven’t made any decisions yet, and we won’t be making any changes of this sort in the next week.

November 19

The previously-mentioned adjustments to Morogrim Tidewalker, Lady Vashj, and Kael’thas Sunstrider will be implemented with weekly maintenance the week of December 14.

Thank you very much for your feedback and discussion. We really appreciate it.


Ah well.
Was fun doing the pre-nerf bosses before they got the nerfbat.


This is making everything competitive about the raids irrelevant up to this point. This does suck.


no reason for this at all, if you wanted to provide he TBC Experience this shouldnt happen until BT/MH is launched and, further, the attunements dropped for both of those were not until sunwell hit so i sincerely hope that the attunements wont be dropped too!


Im fine w/ making stuff easier. Im not looking for a challenge in TBC (Since there is none).

Just feels odd, too soon ? I guess the numbers of ppl playing TBC is looking grim.


just give us weekly lootboxes instead. it was already easy enough

Upon further review, we’ve decided to give this at least a week and discuss it some more. We will not be implementing the changes above with maintenance.

We’ll continue to look for your feedback here and update you with our revised plan, if any, in the next couple of days.


Why not just stick to the original plan and nerf the bosses when the next phase launches? That was the best plan.


I think its a great idea - little nerfs for the endbosses sounds good.


why do you need to nerf it at all? it naturally get easier with gear and experience. one of the reason retail has turned so bad is due to normalmode to heroic being just a way for anyone to experience the content without any effort. effort is an essential part of the experience


Sad to see nerfs being postponed.
But loooking forward to them next reset tho!
Also, happy to see nerds rage about 15yrs old game, keep the salt coming boys.


Not gonna lie. I want the nerf. Guilds are not making the sacrifice of dropping underperforming players and the good players cannot carry that load with the current difficulty.

Nerf it. If guilds didn’t progress for 2 months they won’t progress by the end of the phase anyway. Better safe disbanding guilds and quitting players and they start getting BiS for next phase.
There are still speed running mechanics hard core guilds can enjoy. At least dad guilds will have a chance of getting some kills and this game is for everyone to enjoy.
Another way of doing this is setting a difficulty option on raid entrance so people can select nerfed or prenerfed raids and they distinguish logs after.


Then help your guildies out, teach them their rotation, help them farm that item they’re missing, help them with their crafted gear etc.
The fights are more difficult than other fights so far in TBC, true, but they’re by no means impossible.


Do nerfs when phase 3 is about to be released!
Being able to improve on current content is much of the fun playing classic. Do not make it into just a loot piñata


At this p oint, you won’t be looking at p3 if people keep leaving.

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Hold the nerf untill the very end of this phase please… TBC wasn’t ment to be an easy loot pinäta like retail, so please don’t make it boring.

And if you really feel you need to push these nerfs, give us MH and BT along with it so that we, that actually enjoy the challenge, will have something to do apart from the facerolling grind nerfed P2 will be… (Just like P1 content is now a complete faceroll, so boring…)


Thanks for postponing. This would have been supremely annoying if it went ahead. I’m here to do pre-nerf content, but also thought I could go at a slower pace (9/10 atm).
Personally, I would like no nerfs at all and account-wide attunements, but can live with it if you give me a heads-up this is happening, so I can pug more aggressively.
Now I’ve been warned you’re considering mid-phase nerfs, but PLEASE consider being more open and warn in advance - I suggest a month - about these kind of things. I feel that’s the best way to keep different people in the community reasonably happy.

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Since feedback will matter for this, I’ll share my thoughts here :slight_smile:

I think it is a little bit too early for the nerfs. There are many semi-competitive players who are still at 8/10 or 9/10, but with actual progress. The difficulty of the content caught many players by suprise and guilds had to adjust their line-ups and strategy to progress in the content. And over time, tactics, gameplay and gear have improved.
The low difficulty of Gruul/Mag, especially after the nerfs created a giant gap between T4 and T5, which only made matters worse.

I am currently familiar with three diffrent raid groups:

  • My Mainraid: We achieved 10/10 last ID.
    I still really enjoy the tough content and I think many fellow raiders agree! Improving my tactics on Vashj & KT to minimize wipes is really fun!
  • Second example: Currently 9/10 - Vashj down/KT missing
    Kael’thas is almost down and the majority of the players are still optimizing tactics & gameplay. I think most of them would be disappointed if their hard work was “for nothing”
  • Thrid example: Currenty 8/10 - First KT try yesterday.
    Haven’t talked to them about KT, but there are a handful of good players who I suppose enjoy at least trying these hard fights.

I know there are worse raids than these ones. But due to difficulty scaling of the SSC/TK bosses, there is still progress possible (I remember Leotheras being a super tough boss in my first ID!). They can have fun working on 8/10 for now too!

TLDR: For a variety of players, these nerfs are way too soon!

So: Nerfs when? I think it might be a good idea to release these nerfs 2 IDs before releasing P3. This way, all the decent raid groups will attune for Hyjal but everyone has enough time to work on progress.


I think the nerfs are a good idea, it should help some of the 8/10 guilds who are struggling from collapsing and keep more people playing the game.


This only serves people who find raids a necessary chore for grabbing loot. Nerfing the content prematurely is an insult to guilds that are progressing and look forward to the feeling of accomplishment, as well as an annoyance to guilds who did.

If you take a look at statistics, I don’t think 4/10 hardstuck guilds are the primary audience you want to cater to.

Nerf the content once T6 hits, then it won’t matter anymore.