Yes, this is essentially half of the core of it. You’re short-circuiting the reward loop by putting people through content they won’t enjoy anyway and VERY quickly at that (because you know they don’t enjoy it).
These people need different kinds of content. There needs to be hard, rewarding, and fun solo content for the people who don’t like grouping, but there isn’t, and giving them an easy-mode group content (to the point where it feels like solo content) isn’t going to satisfy these people. They’re just going to be left with “Oh, I guess everything is easy and now I’m done. BAI!”
Not everyone needs to kill the final boss if they can contribute to those who do and feel powerful in that respect. Not every man needs to be a soldier - some can be a smith, if you catch my drift. These people are also great and have very real challenges too, and this space needs to be explored far more INSTEAD of sending unorganised peasants (please don’t mistake this for me disliking them or wishing them no heroics. Keep reading) off to murder a city full of sick and weakly people, then calling them heroes when they return. It’s just hollow and not rewarding or fun.
This realisation motivates features like tradeskills and gathering, hard world mobs, the mage tower, etc. Unsurprisingly, these features have also suffered immensily under the LFR-laden structure and have been ruined. BfA pretty much has none of this at all. It’s really, really sad.
Even with the ZT racials? Are they balanced yet? Doesn’t matter, I am still race changing!
As for KTs, if you’ve played Arms at all (heck, even some Paladin attack animations are used again too), some of the major abilities seem to have very weak, rather stifled animations.
I’m so sick and tired of being over quoted and repeating myself continually. The answer isn’t going to change. It’s still going to be there is no justification for removing content from casual players (or any players). I think you are wrong and nothing you have said justifies or proves that it is right to remove it nor is there anything to back up any claim about it causing a decline in the game. It’s all pure theory. Removing LFR would have a detrimental affect on the game.
LFR included more players, you want to return us to the dark ages and exclude lots of players or force them to play it when the content isn’t current. That is not good gaming. This thread itself has people saying they only do/enjoy LFR and have no interest in organised raiding.
I’m not getting sucked into a sub debate about issues with BfA or grinding. It’s not remotely relevant to this discussion.
You don’t get to decide who can and can’t take part in content. LFR is here for those people who want to do it for whatever reasons they see fit. PvP does have an easy mode, it’s called random battleground or skirmish arena. organised/coordinated PvP is rated. The higher the rating the harder it gets.
Every single part of this game has something for the serious or the casual.
They will enjoy it, why not. LFR in MoP was pretty enjoyable. It’s just that Blizzard as of late fails left and right and does a shoddy job at everything and that things are rotting. It’s not just LFR that got much worse than it was before, it’s also mission table, professions, etc. Even specs. It’s everywhere. But same as specs don’t have to suck, LFR doesn’t have to suck either. It’s fine if they bother to pay attention to the gameplay that they are putting out with it.
The main thing about LFR is that since they are hard-set on absolutely doing raids (even though not a big percentage raids and probably at least partly because some of the devs simply enjoy raids themselves so they defend this as an activity worth having in plans, etc), then we are going to have raids and LFR is just very little effort on top of huge effort that is already going to be spent no matter what. In return for this small effort they get a lot of people queuing. Because even though people don’t want to raid, they already know what raids are, etc. If the development cost of having LFR was high, then yes, LFR would not be a good idea to do, they’d be better off doing something else instead. But the development cost is so little, it’s just hard to compete. It basically comes for free.
Although I absolutely agree that they still can screw up - and in my opinion they did screw up LFR in BFA and in general kept screwing it up after MoP. I, for one, am now doing each boss just once and with the rewards being what they are, chances are, I won’t be doing even that. And if most people are like me and will stop doing LFR (and will just wait until the raid becomes soloable later to see it), we can perhaps start talking about whether it’s worth spending any dev effort on LFR. But all this is just because Blizzard are screwing up everywhere lately. It doesn’t have to be that way, LFR could be good, it was good before.
If i may ask and politely who are you to decide who gets to see and do what and what they deserve ? Im just curious because serveral people have asked you the same question yet you have avoided it .
You do not need to even acknowledge LFR exist yet you are dead set on removing content for people who enjoy it and you never look outside the box .
You do understand that there are players who play that are deaf/blind/handicapped/learning diffaclities so and so forth that LFR is a godsend for and dont you tell me they shouldnt see it .
case in point he and countless others deserve to have content they can use ingame .
You’ve quotemined me to death as well. You haven’t even begun to fathom the beginning of my first post (which you go on to prove shortly) because you don’t want to. Just as your answer isn’t going to change, neither is mine when given replies that don’t consider my arguments.
I don’t care at all for convincing you personally. I am putting my case forward, and you can put yours. Neither of us get to decide what Blizzard will do, Blizzard does. They can read and evaluate these posts should they choose to.
I will not be spoken to as if you have authority over what Blizzard will do. You do not.
Right now they’re on your side. You claim that’s a good thing. I claim that it isn’t. Given the fact that there are millions of people calling for its, and many systems like its, removal, I definitely have a point as well - and you can’t take that away from me by saying I have no objective evidence. Of course I don’t - it hasn’t been tried. But I do have several MMORPG’s in the recent history that reverted their designs and did better as a result.
If you can’t see what the debate about grinding vs. progression has to do with this discussion, you haven’t even understood the first iota of my post, and you probably never will. This has been my last reply to you. I see no reason to deal with this kind of venom of “it is because it is because I say so”.
Now, on to something far more productive.
We have to go deeper.
By that I mean we have to try to understand what design phisolophy and what causes are behind why it’s all worse.
There’s a lot of truth in here. They wanna fit their own preference for raiding onto the entire game and every player, ignoring the MMORPG that is the core of it all in the process, and ignoring the wishes of players, pigeonholing them into raiding when they don’t actually like raiding so they can justify spending more resources creating raids and not much else. Very strong observation, I entirely agree!
I agree here as well, and I am noticing you do it all exactly once and then you’re done, because there’s no further progression to be had. That’s my point
EDIT: So I guess that starts to boil down my argument: Less effort being put into raiding would be a good thing if it means we can have more fun, interesting and challenging content outside it. LFR is short-circuiting the reward loop of raiding and leave raids completed too soon.
Search YouTube for videos like The Blizzard Rant, Sodapoppin’s quit messages, old videos like The Problem In the Mists by Preach, look at the sub graph. Notice they have millions and millions of views and hundreds of thousands of likes. Notice Nostalrius. Notice WoW Classic. ALL OF THEM are unhappy with LFR and systems like it.
No, I told her to stop using the phrase “slap in the face”.
Less raids? Nah. Less resources being poured into creating heavily storyladen “raids”? Yeah, wouldn’t mind it. I want to play an MMORPG, not a raiding sim. Raiding is just one of many facets of a good MMORPG. They are focusing on it too much. Btw even Kungen agrees with there being too much focus on raids:
Looks nasty tbh and i think you are above being rude to posters .
But you totally ingored my post on people with illness and other things ,also when Wildstar tried they failed not everyone who tried the “classic/tbc” ethos succeded and imho WoW and there misson statement when it first came out being a MMO for players 12-85 still stands today .
I just dont get why you want to remove and not improve .taking away things isnt good for anyone. and sorry i despise players like sodapoppin i think and sorry for saying it a pleb just like babyface .
Preach i can handle as he has played at the top and is polite the rest imho are just awful.
I suffer from that aswell its a stress disorder which many will come across in there lifes at some point .
There are many different forms and its not an excuse and i dont mean to insult you here but you are being very narrowminded about this look at a broad picture .
I value your posts i just wish sometimes you wouldnt be so aggerives like i used to be and you spoke badly to a friend of mine i dont like that .You would be the same if i spoke to Redo defensive but lets move on.
See
This coming from you confuses me alot you want (i think we all do tbh) want alot of RPG aspect back and i agree with it but at same time you want other things removed .
One should never remove anything just enhance and refine things .
Make LFR a lil tougher if thats your wish but dont remove it .
When people quote me I quote them back. It gets a bit much after a while and it needed to stop, because it’s a never ending cycle.
I have never claimed to have any authority. I’m a regular poster on the forums, I’m not employed nor paid by Blizzard. I am an MVP, I am not staff. They get to post in Blue.
There are not millions of people calling for the removal of LFR. It is a small sometimes loud minority that pop it’s head up so now and then. Even Titanforging gets a bigger response because that splits the playerbase more. You are trying to link things to your arguments that aren’t related. Issues with grinding in BfA, progression of guilds which aren’t going to find players from the LFR casual crowd etc.
Having said that I do know Blizzard wont remove LFR. It’s not in their interest.
Best of all you have the audacity to call me venomous after the numerous digs at me in your posts.
You claim that ‘millions of people’ want LFR gone and yet every time this pops up on the forums there are more people jumping to the defence of LFR than there are asking for it’s removal. That would suggest to me that the greater majority of what I frrely admit is a minority want it to remain.
Everyone quotes that the decline of WoW came with adding in LFD/LFR but what if the opposite was true. What if the only reason WoW still has the numbers it does is because of of the implementation of these systems. Can anyone give let me know if there are any MMOs out there which have retained as large a proportion of their player-base after such a long time?
If LFR is too easy for you, then jump into Mythic version and never look back for easier modes. We need more variety of current game content, not less.
Raidfinder does not net the higher level gear that normal, heroic, and mythic gives. Yes Raidfinder is easy but it is designed to be that way, so people can experience the raid. If you are that hardcore why did you do raidfinder?
but lets move on.![:slight_smile:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")