they actually do m+ has %30 less run than week #1 now.
personal loot is a must i think anyone with a small crumb of logic would see that but it 's not the only problem with raids. the mechanics are a bigger issue, personal mechanics wiping the raid causing people to require aotc for invites whic leads to same people doing same raids over and over again instead of new ones joining after a while. even normal raids sometimes care about aotc. mechanic design needs a change and i think this also has been proven with guilds too, as they were stuck at mythic tindral for 2 months until it got nerfed to heroic level. design issues.
Imagine, if they wouldn’t always put OP trinkets and even legendaries that are available even on normal raid, then raiding would drop even more in participation.
A lot of extra raids are run just by people who needs/want this specific loot but actually don’t want to raid.
raiding is too time consuming - not only raiding itself but building a group. It doesn’t fit with many peoples busy time schedules where 40min of undivided time is already hard to have. The loot is hardly the problem why people don’t want to raid.
you can also see, the easier the raid especially normal/heroic, the more the participation. Partly due to the fact that people can create groups faster because they can invite more potatoes as there are less dps checks or fail mechanics involved and partly because the raid is generally cleared much faster.
More people could stomach a 2h raid than a 5h raid for sure.
Heh I mean not only did this have any logic but I dont think the guys playing m+ will be happy
Any case the op asked:
And he got answered that people gain max gear long before they reach their limits for the highest keys they can time which is the goal of m+. Im afraid I cant explain it in any other way, I try to give you the facts and the fact is that people dont play m+ as gear for goal nor do they stop playing m+ once they are max geared. The rest you kinda need to connect the dots yourself as I dont know how else to explain it.
I personally only play pvp and I gain max gear on 8 characters before seasons hit midway, when do you think I should stop, once im max ilvl pvp or when i have pushed the whole season through for ratings on characters I wish to play.
Thats the difference between raiding, m+ and pvp when only two of them have repeatable value for score that increase not the gear what they give, its the repeatable value for points that is the factor here. And what they need to figure related raiding or I guess continue like as it is and everyone can do whatever they wish to do with the game they paid for in peace and be like you said happy about it that theyre not forced anywhere they dont want to be.
it is easy for people to do M+ and just get gear as fast.
It is not as easy for people who do M+ to just get into a raid.
raid is not harder from skill perspective but it is way more restrictive and time consuming.
but also you have to run a metric ton of dungeons to get all heroic gear and up it to max.
It takes well over 100 dungeons. Saying gearing is fast when it actually takes quite a lot of hours is well…
getting the gear on 2/6 is quite fast if you have rng on your side and don’t mind the stats, but haveing everything on 6/6 or even 4/4 myth is not fast at all.
M+ does indeed drop more gear, but at lower ilvl. It caps out at Hero, not counting the Vault, while raiding caps out at myth track gear.
If people want the amount of gear to be equal then the ilvl available should be equal as well.
I prefer raiding to M+, but this is an annoyance. Character progress is dog slow when raiding without other activities, even when allowing for 60-100 crests on a regular weekly run with the team.
It’s absolutely atrocious if you theoretically prefer to gear a new alt via LFR, since chances are you’ll win zero pieces while people who don’t need the ilvl walk away with every drop. Discouraging people from running LFR cannot be having positive effects on people’s desire to raid at higher levels.
I only begrudge group loot in LFR, but I also don’t pug raid. It would be nice if the RL got a prompt when creating the raid to set group or personal loot, at that cannot be changed once chosen - and all players are notified upon join which mode it is in and given the chance to leave. Simple and easy way to end all the arguments.
Or let the vault loot be better than the boss loot - just like with M+. The heroic raid should be putting myth track items in the vault. It’s one item per week, it averages about 20-25 weeks to max out a character via the vault. We shouldn’t be worried that heroic raiders might be 480 geared by the end of the season. Not when M+18 exists, drops aspect crests, and is easier than half the heroic raid bosses.
I road for progression but the loot certainly helps . Now I’ve got curve and I still need maybe one more item from the raid. Tbf my guilds 7/9 but unplugged the last two last week was an awful experience
I don’t think your statement is valid since you can get the tier set by doing M+ … and the catalyst.
Plus I think raid tier has different stats than catalyst? might be wrong. So an extra incentive to farm raid tier if you’re interested on those specific stats. And what could help you in defeating the bosses to get what you want? oh… the tier set. That’s right.
And what M+ groups want to invite you? Oh full set… that’s right…
Yeah tell them to the guys who collected in the vault while others don’t.
I don’t care in earning the stuff. I just want to push keys.
Also your statement is again invalid man you’re digging a hole there.
So if I’d wait 2 months and get full tier set just like that, in the catalyst… is it earned?
”I wish I would get conquest gear faster but I only do m+”
. Now I’ve got curve and I still need maybe one more item from the raid. Tbf my guilds 7/9 but unplugged the last two last week was an awful experience 
might be wrong. So an extra incentive to farm raid tier if you’re interested on those specific stats. And what could help you in defeating the bosses to get what you want? 
if you don’t want to road wait and you’ll get it in around a month. Do I see an issue with that no. Tier should be earned
