good news.
Not really, not with T5 as a whole. T5 in general - and especially Vashj and Kael - were significantly overtuned. To the point that even the strongest guilds on the servers - the one made of people regularly pulling off orange/pink parses and treating WoW as almost a regular activity on par with a job - struggled with these encounters despite knowing the tactics in advance and having the benefit of prior PTR experience on top of it. Heck, T6 bosses as a whole are actually significantly easier than T5 right off the bat. T5 bosses have been the most nerfed in TBC history for a good reason (for comparison, T6 content stayed largely unchanged from 2.1 to 2.4.3 except for a few bug fixes, mostly on Archimonde).
According to some of you, nothing short of mythic difficulty is relevant.
People struggled even tho they were “good” - so what? Are people struggling (and by this you mean a wipe or two before a kill even for experienced guild) a bad thing? Can a parallell be drawn to them trying to “rush” the boss to get a better kill time? To some of the RNG elements of the fight?
The more they do a encounter and the better gear they get, the less the RNG will have a effect on the result - but it being atleast a part of the equation makes it more exiting.
You make it seem like one has to be a superhero to have killed 2 end bosses that were out for 3 months (which is more than enough time to farm the 8 other bosses to improve gearwise).
I myself am a part of a pretty much casual dad guild that play two times 3 hours every week. Initialy we didnt even see TK the first three weeks (because we ran out of time as we invested in SSC) and have more or less exchanged 50-60% of the guild - amongst them 3-4 tanks (never reciving better geared people than what left - losing alot of big ticket items in the process).
Am I a part of the “some of you” that want “Mythic”? Not even close, not by logs, not by ambition, not by anything.
Are we killing KT/Vashj however? Yes, Vashj for months even. Before the attempt where we finally killed KT we werent even close, then all of a sudden everything clicked and he died. Sweetest taste ever! The next week he fell on the first attempt - showing that experience, mentality and gear eventually nerfs any boss, without removing a sence of accomplishment.
Does this mean we never wipe there anymore? No, which keeps us on out toes and makes us appreciate evey kill.
If people havent killed Vashj and KT after 3 months and endless information /guides/ gear upgrades, then them not being “no lifers” or “hardcore” has very little - if any at all - to do with it. So drop that bs about how thats a factor and about how anybody that has killed them wants to “gatekeep” epics from you (which gives away where some peoples priorities are atleast).
I just want my Wednesdays and Sundays to feel rewarding, exiting and fun in the future aswell.
With everything said, atleast Im happy we killed them before the nerf. It would have been the biggest spit in the face by Blizzard to remove 3 months of struggle and the reward that came with finally doing it in the end. Cant believe some people acually want that, for what? 2 extra epics a week? Bunch of losers - Sorry not sorry.
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No, I don’t mean a “wipe or two”. I mean spending 4-5 nights a week raiding for at least the first two weeks of progress. And that’s after having spent weeks playing the raid on PTR before launch. And even beyond raid nights we’d often had to have briefings to analyze logs, share tactics, check class discords etc. This kind of effort may be fine for a world first guild or a speedrunning parsing guild. It’s not fine, IMO, if it’s required just to down the content in the first place with BiS gear from the previous phase and a near-perfect raid composition.
Care about posting logs? Because it seems like half the people on this forum like to just make things up, and the other half just have their own weird definition of what counts as a “casual dad guild”.
My guild name is right there next to my name. Look at the tanks changing, look at the progress (the 14 wipes during Sundays on Vashj), look at the improvement on the parts that we acually were able to “clear” in order to get more time on the bosses we struggled with. It all adds up. Ambition and improvement can still be a thing even with 8/10 in a dad guild - can it not?
Im not lying to you m8, why would I. At a point we pretty much stood between a disband or PUGing the last few spots - missing resets while recruiting everything and nothing meanwhile just to get a roster.
In the end it all just made the kill sweeter, and nothing could have made it better.
(Feel free to apply, could use a Mage ^^)
Except you were. Maybe you forgot, but if you look at logs, you can clearly see that, especially for the first month (but even as recently as 2-4 weeks ago) you often spent an extra raiding day (as in, 3 in the week - sometimes Wednesday/Thursday/Sunday, sometimes Thursday/Sunday/Monday instead) to progress on Vashj first, on Kael later (and you still took months to get 10/10 - for comparison, when I was still on Clown Wagon on my paladin, we got 10/10 much quicker, but we raided a LOT more than that at first). That matters a lot. Many guilds and people simply don’t have the time for a third raid night. That doesn’t mean they’re bad. But the game shouldn’t be tuned around having to spend that much time on the game in the first place. And T5 is a particularly bad offender of this.
For comparison, T6 is actually a bit longer, but much more forgiving. SWP is again pretty hard, but much shorter. WotLK raids are not only notably shorter (compared to T5), but you have flexible difficulty from Ulduar onwards so you can still train on the boss on Normal mode and gain the experience and gear necessary to face Heroic mode when time comes. T5 really stands out like a sore point in this respect.
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We spent a few Thursdays 3 weeks into Phase 2 (since focus was SSC - like said), trying to do PUGs so that people who felt they had time and didnt want to miss out on TK would get a chance.
Feel free to compare names (and how many of them are around now), how many are from the guild and so on during the hand full of Thursdays we did this on. If that makes this group of players “hardcore”, then I dont know low bar you set for yourself and your guild these months.
Trust me, the logs are there, there is nothing even remotely hardcore with these logs or the schedule.
- As I said, you spent more than 2 raids a week on KT as well, recently
- Not having people willing to raid 3+ nights a week on progress doesn’t mean having a “low bar” IMO. If you find that the raids are too easy because you can clear them in just 1-2 nights, roll an alt or something.
I always enjoyed reading your posts, but hearing you say that Vashj and KT are overtuned blows my mind. They are not. They require a little coordination and proper dps but they are not overtuned. Those “5 day raid” guilds and i hate to say it, are probably just bad.
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Says the guy who spends 4 hours per night raiding and still took 4 weeks to get Vashj down and 6 weeks to get Kael. Those “5 day raid guild” that you speak of had already got 10/10 before you even downed Vashj alone. Just saying.
You arent even checking m8, why are you like this? No wonder your guild struggle if this is how you read logs.
During the 5 Thursdays (if not 4) during October (where Vashj was killed) where some of us PUGed 2/4 or 3/4 in TK >no tries where even done on KT<.
We called the raids after Astromancer (at best) - it’s right there for you to see, the mobs on the way to him arent even touched. Why are you acting like Im holding this information away from you?
Lets pretend we focused TK 1 of 3 days, it means that Vash fell after 2 x 3 hours / week in October (as you can see no overlapping logs between SSC/TK.) So how could a casual dad guild clear Vashj with 2 x 3 hours week after 5 resets? Whats the execuse? With ever changing tanks, members, wipes and fails.
Are you just trying to justify other peoples kills now or whats up? Like said, if these guys are even close to hardcore - then I dont know what hardcore is.
Acually dont apply, never had a thing for people who excuse every little single failure in their life and point out instead of pointing in. You seem to be great at making excuses.
No need to reply, tried to give you perspective but you just want to make excuses. Enjoy the faceroll!
I’m sure I will, thanks.
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Is it “all bosses” as per this post, or the three bosses previously mentioned?
Can you post the actual changes to HP/mechanics, please, like patch notes?
If current PTR is anything to go by, all bosses - including trash - will be in their 2.4.3 state. You can check classicwowreddit for threads about PTR findings.
Dear Kaivax,
I am leading a raid and we are at 8/10 having Vashj down to 26%. And you know what? We are having fun and don’t want to have the nerfs because it wouldn’t be the same feeling if you give us a helping hand in order to progress further. We wanna do this on our own!
So just to be clear, we don’t need any nerfs!
Thank you.
So? i did not start raiding for several weeks and i only raid on one day. My progression has nothing to do with the nerfs. I dont want them and people who do are cleary dumb.
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And the statement final nerf and 2.4.3. is exactly the same. And why do you want to cancel the attunements? This is exactly what it needs in a MMORPG the way to the endcontent and anyone who wants to actually progress through the entire addon including Sunwell is willing enough to do so and reach the goal.
if you need 3 raidnights you are bad tho? even proper pugs do 1 night clears for months already
I was talking about your guild, not you specifically. I mean, if I joined a guild that already downed KT and Vashj and thus got them down on my first night with them, does that make me as good as the people in guilds that did get KT and Vashj down on the first week of P2?
Lol “proper pugs”. Show me a pug actually made of average players (i.e. not handpicked from the top guilds) with normal parses that manage to clear both SSC and TK in 3 hours. I’ll be waiting for the logs.
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yTqQDX6nd3KrwAJp#boss=-3&difficulty=0
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/guild/eu/gehennas/kadet%20pug¨
do you even play the game?