also if you report malicious kicking as ‘‘grief’’ it is no longer punishable by gms. it’s working as intended
to be clear I’ve seen people being kicked because they refused to trade or make a minor mistake with mitigation so i do feel like saving innocents 30 min is better than saving 10 seconds of innocent players.
While ignoring all the time the troll will waste in the next group and the next group and the next group and the next group
it’s 8.1, it’S not 2018 anymore
atm you can just keep kicking people in IE for no reason, over and over and over and over again. same thing as u are describing + 30 min debuff. how is first better than other?
I agree serial kickers need investigations and rules need to be put in place as to what is and is not a legal kick.
I dont like that a bad transmog is in the rules as a reason to kick
I do IEs every week, mostly just queuing up on my own and I’ve been kicked once. I also got to join one that was losing with like two minutes left before the AI won ![:laughing:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/laughing.png?v=6" ":laughing:")
well, then you get to bigger issue, who defines what’s a “good reason to kick” and what isnt?
blizzard? sure but how?
is a “bad DPS” a reason? afk? rude? bad player? wrong spec? low level? etc.
how do you objectify what’s a good reason for kicking? because right now its subjective.
I’ve been kicked twice EVER, in everything, since july, because I guess Im too good to be kicked? those 2 were when i went ham on people 
so yeah.
but i’ve witnessed a lot of unfair kicks and punishing innocent is a bigger issue than not pushing guilty, especialy when its 30 min to 10 sec.
In my opinion yes yes yes yes (if they signed up as a healer and are dps spec) and no
okey lets continue.
who defines good DPS? I mean I can pull 18-20k single target right now, so is “bad” worse than me? am I bad? is 5k bad? is 10k bad? its subjective. I could take 3 other Bukachus and call everyone a baddie and kick them all day every day and that would be “justified” according to what you said.
now afk? how long is “afk”. is someone going to drink water afk? is someone opennig a door afk? yeah it all is but is it about a timeframe or just not playing?
and many more questions
rude - same, subjective.
bad player - subjective, if i’d compare people to me it would be bunch of baddies and same scenario as in DPS part.
that’s why kicking currently is subjective, because its hard to objectify it.
I was kicked because the two players in there were over pulling and kept killing us. So I went off on my own after two deaths and they booted me. That was their choice.
As the debuff is half an hour I went and cooked dinner instead.
Some groups want to do everything together and others don’t care and will go off individually. I find with Hc or Nm it doesn’t matter and both methods work. I have politely been asked to stick with the group before and I’ve been happy to do that. As long as they are sensible.
Thats the problem.
There is no quantifiable messure but you know it when you see it.
The extremes are obvious but the line where it starts and stops is not.
I think thats why the rules dont say what is and is not an okay reason to kick as it would cause staff too much too decide.
The kicks are purely based on majority rule.
True but get 3 people of the same guild dedicated to joining random dungeons together to kick random people for hours for no reason other than finding it fun to give people 30 minute dungeon bans and there is nothing to stop them.
I think 98% of the time the kicks are justifiable but I cant disagree that the fact this can happen as well is a problem.
that’s my point, so you cant punish someone for “abusing” it.
You can if Blizzard puts rules in place.
But they wont because it would require moderation and that would take effort.
gimme examples. tell me rules that would stop me from mass kicking people in theory.
I don’t think you get to vote people out if you’re all in the same guild like that, certainly not in dungeons. It’s been a long time since I’ve had to try to vote anyone off.
IEs are different. There’s only three of you so if two are in the same guild you can’t vote either of them out and ofc they can vote you out.
Perhaps if you have kicked people past a certain percentage then it gets reviewed.
It takes 3 people in a dungeon to kick and I think guild members get to kick people if they want to too or else a someone can troll and they cant ever be kicked because the kickers are together.
I meant, what defines my guilt? review is fine but evidence is all that matters. what’s a thing that will make them be like “yeah he did this lets punish him for mass-kicking”