I would actually go the other around. Increase the penalty for leaving voluntary a group to 45 minutes, and decrease the penalty for being kicked for 15 minutes.
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pretty fair
I hnonestly think that the penalty for getting kicked should be half the time in comparism to leaving on your own. Or just let the deserter buff run in the background from the beginning of the dungeon, so when you get kicked after 8 minutes you only have 22 minutes of deserter buff left. That would at least put a bandaid on being kicked by a premade 4/5 pvp server group who kick people just out of malice.
The votekick instrument was actually introduced for good reasons.
Have someone in the group who tries to triock the ilvl achievement by full resilience gear and does no damage at all? - Kick justified
Have a tank that doesn’t wait for the healers mana or does stupid pulls by trying to “skip” mobs? - Kick justified
Ninjalooters? - Kick justified
People insulting others?- Kick justified
These were the original reasons for the votekick instrument. But people abuse it.
Having to go to the door because the mailman wants to put your neighbour’s package at your place again? - Kick unjustified
Take 20 seconds to go to the kitchen to refill your drink? - Kick unjustified
Being “too slow” because you wait for your healers mana? - kick unjustified
Letting dps die because they keep pulling before the tank? - Kick unjustified
So, it would be a mistake to remove the vorekick option because then you would have no chance to get rid of people who actually behave badly. But is ti really necessary to make people wait whole 30 minutes because some others think it’s fun to randomly kick people? There must be away in between and the easiest would be to make the getting kicked penalty shorter. But there are of course other, more complicated solutuion which are still possible as others mentioned here.
This sounds reasonable tbh. 15 minutes deserter if kicked, and;
45 minutes penalty if ditching the group voluntarily. Wouldn’t stop it from happening ofc, we still have people like Liliith, but it would perhaps have a slight impact.
In practice, that would just set the penalty to 15 minutes. Beacuse those who who want to leave, would simply be toxic or afk until they get kicked.
I disagree. Even though I, personally, would never kick somebody for these reasons, they are not ‘unjustified’.
This is a democratic voting system. There are 4 other random player in your group, and the majority of them have decided that they do not want you in the group. You like it or not, the will of the majority is the will of the group.
The problem starts, the the players are no longer random. This cause that the decisions made by the majority are no longer individual decisions, but decisions by a set goal.
It would be interesting and surely more fair.
Also I would add that if someone leaves before even the first boss of a dungeon is killed, that player debuff increases of 5 mins for each time he lives, in a way similar to games like Dota handles them. This of course for the first player that leaves the dungeon.
Obviously there are more nuances that needs to be taken account of, like bugs that makes impossible to get to the first boss.
I have been farming some dungeons daily and I just got kicked by a team of 4 swedish guildies at the last boss in halls of origination. Reason; I asked to kill Setesh. It was a struggle to heal them since they sucked really badly as well…
Don’t bother mentioning it’s forbidden to call out scumbags. I don’t care.
Lilstumpen-Firemaw
Pirogen-Firemaw
Joypalkadin-Firemaw
Elgripó-Firemaw
Edit: feel free to ban me for calling the scumbags out, I dont really care tbh. It would be quite nice to not interract with this kind of players…
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Then something needs to be done with multiboxing in heroics. It’s getting ridiculous
People constantly leaving is the biggest issue. If you queue for a dungeon you should commit to a full run, otherwise setup a group outside of RDF. Common sense.
The penalty is there to try and make it so people feel less inclined to just continue leaving over and over. Not there to hinder people from leaving at all.
You should not be forced to commit to anything. It’s a videogame, not a job.
You’re not punished for a dps leaving.
If you had to disband the grp or run as 4 when one left, you’d have an argument imo.
It is fine if you decide on your own to leave the group after you didn’t get what you wanted at first boss. But then the 30 minutes penalty fine because maybe it keeps people staying. With an average group, the dungeon will be done in 30 minutes anyway, maybe even less. If you still don’t want that, that is fine.
But don’t remove it completely, just have a different time for being kicked.
So people that get kicked for good reason (like ninjalooting etc.) should get a lower penalty than people who leave on their own?
And someone leaving the dungeon early on their own doesnt mean the reason for leaving isnt unjustified:
- if the doorbell rings I leave, since i don’t want the group to wait for a uncertain amount of time
- same when my phone rings and i see its a person where it might take longer
- as a healer i often leave on my own when i see its a group where no one respects the mechanics or the tank doesnt let me drink even when i’m oom and spamming my oom macro… if i see such behavior at the first trash groups i simply leave, can’t be bothered to play whack the mole or run spamming /oom behind a rushing tank for half an hour while whiping every now and then.
and you just need loot on the first boss, you leave right after killing him.
Nice try, i got all loot i needed long ago, i’m still farming reputation (last faction now) and justice points for heirlooms.
maybe you, but the random player leaving after the first or second boss, is it because he only needed those boss or because someone’s at the door? How can the game know for sure in order to give the appropriate penalty?
Neither the game nor the group can know for sure unless the person leaving tells them (and even then it could be just a lie).
But there are valid reasons to leave a group and those people shouldnt get punished more than people who got kicked rightfully and thats pretty much my point.
My reply was mostly towards your post that people leaving (sometimes even for valid reasons) should have longer deserter buffs than people getting kicked and that is nonsense in my opinion.
A ninjalooter would get a shorter penalty and someone who doesnt want the group to wait for an unknown amount of time or simply can’t be bothered whiping through a dungeon with bad teammembers would get a longer penalty.
Also the topic of people leaving is pretty much blown out of proportion in my opinion.
Sure, i also had people leaving after a boss but its fairly rare in my experience and unless its the healer or tank the person gets replaced within seconds anyways.
Same thing today… Again I got kicked for asking at start if we could kill Setesh, this time I got removed after two trashpacks though… These sociopats…
Zakishen-Mandokir
Maskerain-Mandokir
Matusún-Mandokir
The fourth scumbag I didn’t get the name of…
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The first two are quite kind of you, and most wouldn’t do that.
For me, doorbell rings are usually just a package being delivered which would take about 1 minute.
Considerig the last point: Leaving there surely saves you nerves. The other way would be to just sit down and drink and let the idiots die if they don’t watch out for healer mana. If you get kicked after that for actually needing mana to heal (lol how could you?) → shorter deserter debuff if the penalty for being kicked would be reduced.
To me thats just good practice, i wouldnt want to wait for other people for 5 minutes or longer in dungeons that only take 15-20 minutes to clear anyways.
I simply try to treat others as i want to be treated.
Packages dont get delivered at the time i am playing at and i live on my own, when the doorbell rings, someone wants to see me, even if its just the neighbour asking for a screwdriver.
I play the game to relax and have some fun and i dont want to read toxic chat, hence i leave on my own.
I dont even care about my normal deserter buff, thats not even my point.
I just dont understand why you would punish people who leave on their own, no matter if for valid reasons or selfish ones like not needing loot from the rest of the bosses, while people who get rightfully kicked (for example ninjalooters and griefers) should get less of a punishment?
A DPS leaving the group wont impact you at all, he will be replaced within seconds.
A tank or a healer might take a bit longer but in my experience it never took longer than 2-3 minutes.
A griefer however might wipe the group and cost more time and on top of that some repcosts.
A ninjalooter might have gotten the item you were farming for several playsessions und will now have to farm again for an uncertain amount of time.
Both examples are way worse in my opinion, even when someone left for a selfish reason.
In my opinion, they should either just remove the penalty or keep it as is for all players and reasons, there is no way for the game to decide if something was justified or not - no matter if its someone leaving on his own or getting kicked.