Remove rating requirements from conquest gear upgrades #LAST

Community General Discussion
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Here’s the first thread on this in the Battlegrounds section:

Remove rating requirements from conquest gear upgrades - PVP / Battlegrounds - World of Warcraft Forums (blizzard.com)

I thought of making a thread in General as well, it’s going to be the second and last one. If you are interested in the topic, please read the first thread for context.

Here is one more data point from when PVP was popular.

This is Blizzard’s own infographic from Cataclysm:

http://media.wow-europe.com/infographic/images/WoW_Infographic-2014_EN.jpg

Zoom and scroll to about the middle. Observe:

Everyday in Azeroth, there are…
900k PVE instances
670k PVP instances

The majority of PVE instances are 5-mans. The majority of PVP instances are BGs, 10-man+. As you can see, the number of people who were doing PVP every day was ON PAR with the number of people who were doing PVE! And the majority of that PVP were random BGs.

And a big part of why so many people did PVP those days was that doing random BGs was providing you with top PVP gear. (Well, they did screw up with some PVE items in that expansion that ended up being better than PVP ones, but that was an exception, not the rule.) You’d be playing random BGs and you’d be getting conquest points. Slower than in rated PVP, but you’d be getting them. And the conquest gear that you’d then buy with them had no rating requirements. We have nearly the same system in SL now, but the key thing is missing - conquest upgrades now have rating requirements. They shouldn’t have them.

Blizzard, please let us go back to those times when PVP was popular. Remove rating requirements from conquest gear upgrades. That’s all I ask for. Make conquest gear that would be upgraded without ratings bad for PVE (retain the original low ilvl for PVE and only get the upgraded high ilvl in PVP), if you have to.

Thanks.

7 Likes
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It’s so hard to get started into rated, every pug ask for people having experience so unless you know someone who is willing to waste his time and rating to help you get into it by doing 2s with you wont be able to get any good conquest gear.

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No, git gud

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No.
If you’re not good at the game you don’t get the good gear.

It’s a really simple concept. If you want to mask being bad with hours played go play classic.

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Yes.

This is a long-standing problem of WoW - players do not graduate from unrated PVP to rated in any material amounts. Because the game lacks means to help them do that and without such means, it becomes too hard - you spend most of your time not PVPing but rather looking for partners. This then turns into a feedback loop where finding groups for rated PVP is hard → not many people do rated PVP → finding groups becomes even harder.

There are means to fight that - rated solo queues. That’s how all PVP games do it. WoW doesn’t because it’s ancient. If WoW had a solo queue for rated BGs, people would have been moving from unrated PVP to rated just fine. But WoW doesn’t have that so they don’t, and never did in amounts that mattered.

So, with the absence of modern means to help people graduate from unrated PVP to rated PVP, they have been doing the simplest thing that still let unrated PVP exist - they were allowing people doing random BGs get to the top gear in PVP, just slowly. In SL, they removed this, it was a blunder. The easiest way to fix it is to get rid of rating requirements on conquest gear. Perhaps making conquest gear upgraded without ratings low ilvl for PVE, if needed.

3 Likes
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The incentives or vehicles to get people into rated pvp aren’t great, that also concentrates the player pool into more skilled dedicated players which makes it further more difficult for people to jump on the ladder. It reminds me of when they released Quake champions, the playerpool consisted quite heavily of Quake veterans who absolutely steamrolled new players so hard into the ground that they just quit and the game probably died because of that.

But removing any requirement to do rated PVP for gear surely is not the answer? Would that not be the equivalent of allowing Mythic raiding gear to drop from lower difficulties, or capping M+ gear at a lower difficulty but still offering the high quality.

There is a balance, I’m not sure this is it.

2 Likes
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PVP → Premade Groups → Arena

First 10 lists:

2.5k exp
3.3k exp lf 1.8cr
Low CR groing Push
Cap 3v3
Cap i'm 170ilvl
0CR LF Cap
Just Cappin
LOW CR
Lf chill heals chillout
1.2CR lf HEALER no xp

You need to stop making excuses for yourself. You can absolutely find a partner.

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Mate, first off, arenas aren’t BGs. They are different content.

Second, I did both arenas and rated BGs, I know how much time it takes to find groups. It’s a lot.

I am not asking for gear that is on par with conquest everywhere. I am merely asking for gear that would be on par with conquest in random BGs and there alone. Read closer.

1 Like
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What I would do is make upgrading conquest gear less expensive the higher your rating is so you still have an incentive to climb up the ladder by gearing asap but people who just want to no rated or can’t do rated for the reasons stated above can still gear up even if at a slower pace.

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First, they were doing exactly that in prior expansions. It worked because getting conquest gear from random BGs was slow. The balance is here: if you do rated PVP, you get gear fast, if you do unrated PVP, you get the same gear, but slow.

But I am not even asking for conquest gear per se. As I said, they might limit conquest gear upgraded without ratings to be bad in PVE. Ie, in random BGs, it’s ilvl 226, but everywhere else it’s ilvl 200. They used a similar system in WoD, it was working wonders.

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I agree the WOD system worked well, but the new Blizzard philosophy seems to be against the idea of having PVP and PVE being especially separate. They rather put more versatility on items and give the trinket 2 set bonus to encourage you to use PVP gear, but without overly punishing one or the other like in previous expansions.

I think we’re beyond massive reworks right now, it’s unrealistic given the timescale Blizzard works on, and how they don’t change philosophy until a new expansion comes out and they act like the player ideas were their own.

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Solo Queue would fix this

The problem with rated arena right now is there are A LOT of people that want to play but aren’t allowed to play.

If you don’t have an IRL friend to queue with, and you don’t have any prior rating in arena, you can go weeks without being accepted into a 2s game.

I would love to play arena too, i love watching streams of arena, i love competetive games, i exclusively play ranked in every other PvP game i play, CSGO, R6siege, Dota, League

But the barrier to entry to WoW arena is just too intimidating, in those games any fresh account can just press a button an tada they’re playing ranked, in WoW you need 3 page CV, and a personal interview just to play 1 game and get ditched right after.

7 Likes
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If you’re good in arena and have high arena EXP you’ll get into RBG’s easy too.

We’re talking about rating requirements, therefor you have to consider Arenas too.
You can not ask for a rating requirement removal and then ignore the main rating scene, Arena. It’s irrelevant if you focus on RBG’s over Arenas.

PS in the past 10 mins i’ve been watching the RBG list.
There’s been a total of 5 groups. 3 have been chill / yolo / for fun groups. The other two are asking for 2.2k+ EXP.
So once again, quit making excuses.

If you want to best gear you do the harder content. Simple.

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This is precisely why i’m trying to set up a community to try and get those in this situation together so even if we’re all bashing our heads together with slow cr climbs, at least we know we’re not expecting the earth every game and it is not ruining our hypothetical target of 2.4cr or whatnot.

Just looking to “get into it” and see what can be managed and try and scrape some gear better than the horrible timegated stuff on offer, and more importantly provide a chilled access point for rated stuff that bypasses the need to apply to X groups on premade or whatnot, and kind of “work it out” as we go, rather than expect it upfront.

I mean all props to people who want that, I totally get why. It does make people looking to make a move into the territory quite daunting however.

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Here’s one more thing they could do that wouldn’t touch PVE and PVP and wouldn’t be a massive rework - cap gear in random BGs to the maximum ilvl obtained from random BGs = ilvl 200.

But removing rating requirements from conquest gear would also be very simple and that would coincide with what they were doing in prior expansions.

Whatever it is, they have to do something. Because if they do nothing, well, people doing random BGs just have no way to stay competitive in them without doing PVE or rated PVP, this is unlike all prior expansions, and it will absolutely result in people stopping to do random BGs, and then some of them stopping to play the game.

Overall, their changes have been great. It’s just a single blunder. I really hope they will fix it.

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wait a sec, is this guy actually really asking for high ilvl gear for literally free? just cp?
did i understand wrong?

2 Likes
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Yeah give mythic raid items by playing on 1k4

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Tbh, I got 2k in season 4 of Bfa so easy. I was playing with mage for a week or so, it is not something unachievable tbh.

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On Horde maybe, on alliance I have been watching the lfg tool for an hour and there is always like 4 or 5 groups, all asking for experienced people.

I don’t mind the better ilvl being locked behind ranking but then there should be a way for newbie to actually get in and start ranking and not get insta declined because they lack experience.

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Gear for conquest isn’t free, conquest cap is slow and filling it via random BGs takes significant time. They already used this scheme in prior expansions - eg, in MoP. It was working wonders, PVP participation was huge (more than half of the players).

Further, I’d be fine with that gear having a full ilvl just in random BGs and there alone. They also did that - eg, in WoD. It was working wonders as well, PVP participation was huge again.

The point is that in every expansion, people doing random BGs and nothing else had a way to stay competitive there. With their changes in SL, they accidentally removed too much - they removed both scaling and being able to get top-level gear slowly. They should have either removed just one thing, or have removed both but added something as a replacement. They will likely do add something as a replacement still, maybe in season 2. My post details what this something could be. If they add nothing, PVP participation will collapse.

1 Like