Hey! I don’t know about you guys who play Outlaw or Assa, but for a Sub Rogue… Slice and Decide just feels like a chore. It is a boring ability that you just need to keep up at all time.
The way that Sub rogue plays I am actually quite happy with how the general game style is working out. Not talking about the damage output here, just the fluidity of the specc… With the exception of Slice and Dice. I think in terms of fluidity, the specc is very well designed otherwise (other than some haste / energy regen issues). I guess having to pick shadow focus, because the energy regen is so bad is a bit lame too.
I don’t really understand why blizzard felt that they needed to add SnD to sub rogue, whereas Rupture was definitely welcomed. SnD just feels clunky and boring to use. I would much rather have a CP spender on a cool down that does something more interesting/specific/situational (like e.g. grants you leech and lets you deal shadow damage instead of physical damage for the next 20 seconds)… You know something flavourful!
However, I repeat… SnD is just so boooooooring to maintain and has 0 fun factor in it. Just remove/replace the ability already. I can’t speak for assa and outlaw, but let me know what you think.
32 Likes
Yeah, not much tied to it: no fun, no skill. Just a button that must be pressed every now and then. As Outlaw, I would love to see it go, which means Grand Melee can go as well (the worst Roll The Bones there is).
10 Likes
They once removed hunger for blood because it was a boring ability, and was not fun to use. So it’s a bit funny to see them bring back slice and dice without any synergy.
They need to make snd passive, and also bring back fun things that they took away instead. Burst of speed, gouge etc. And also bring back focused attacks for assassination.
8 Likes
I remember when they 1st announced SnD was coming back and I said it would feel like a handicap on the whole Class. I take no joy in being 100% correct on that. It is an outdated, archaic ability, that has no place in the modern game. It’s fine for Classic, as that’s meant to be old school, but in today’s Encounter and PvP design it offers no benefits, while also crippling your play.
Of course, had they given Rogues more than a cursory glance during the Alpha and Beta, they would’ve noticed this. This is the predictable result of doing only the bare minimum to get a Class functioning for a new expansion, without any regards on how it actually feels to play it. Rogues have had the least effort and attention invested in them since WoD. It shows, it shows bad.
22 Likes
I hate snd its boring and on top of everything else it makes the gameplay feel like a chore.
I have barely even played my rogue in SL because i hate snd so much. Snd was the main reason why i back in mob rerolled to monk.
6 Likes
Nah I still don’t agree. It’s good to have some stuff to look out for.
2 Likes
I agree, but I think the game would be more interesting if it had abilities that were targeted towards specific mechanics/situations in the game, rather than just having an ability that just needs 100% uptime. For instance, a raid/boss buff/debuff could be more interesting to play with or as I mentioned before, a situational CP spenders that let’s you gain shadow dance instead of physical, or higher execute damage or what not… I don’t want to dumb down the class and have less buttons to press, but this 100% uptime CP-costing mumbo jumbo is not fun…
5 Likes
it’s not quite 100% though, there are a good amount of situations where it’s better to spend points on something else. stuff like that is great for the spec.
i like slice. i like what it does to the pacing of the spec by speeding it up, i like having prep before bursting where it’s stronger if you do it properly and i like having the decision of not using it when it’s better to do something else. the more you strip that away, the more the spec becomes about just pressing shadowstrike and eviscerate. but sure, it’s not the most interesting thing, and if it were to be replaced with something else while having the pacing effects it has made passive then i wouldn’t mind.
3 Likes
Yeah not on a raidboss though, then it is pretty much 100%. Sure in M+ you can avoid using it quite often, because most likely you are running premediation anyway… I dno, I see you point, but that’s also what I’m saying. I wouldn’t want to dumb down the class either, I’d rather replace SnD with something.
True. But I don’t think that it’s necessarily a problem. Because as I see it the modern game of WoW is much about dealing with content mechanics by correct use of class utility and planning of both offensive and defensive cooldowns.
In M+ you often have to keep track on a lot of different mobs. You often have to utilize both focus macros and mouseover macros to CC the important abilities while dps down priority targets. Especially as a Rogue. I have 3x binds for each Kick, Kidney, Blind, Cheap shot and Shiv. Therefore I have 15 key binds for just 5 abilities. This is required to use our utility optimally. At the same time we also need to plan when to save cloak for incoming damage and when to hold off using Vanish as a damage CD. On top of that you should also keep track of group CDs so you know when a Fire mage will combust to not waste your own CDs on a pull that dies in 15 seconds anyway.
We therefore already have a lot of things to keep track of already. These things has nothing to do with our dps rotation but are even more important. In this context, abilities like SnD just feel absolutely redundant. To me it feels like trying to improve a Michelin dish by adding some insignificant parsley on the top that does nothing good for the overall experience of the dish.
Using utility and offensive/defensive CDs correctly is what makes the game engaging. Not doing a fixed damage rotation. That’s my opinion at least.
4 Likes
If at least, Slice and Dice do some damages (less than our main finisher) and also boost our attack speed, ok, but no, it’s just press this thing every XX seconds.
SnD is outdated, like someone said, it’s good for classic, not for modern game.
And stop saying it take some skill to use, please, it’s just build CP and press it, so you got a wonderful useless animation and you attack more faster.
And in raid or M+, you already a lot of things to track, sometime I forgot I had to waste my CP into SnD because I’m focus on the strat/affixes.
I’m not against bring some stuffs, but not the bad forgettable stuff, bring us the fun or usefull stuff to use (like Smoke Bomb baseline so I can have something for raiding than juste “damages ?”).
4 Likes
I also don’t like seeing my “Melee” at the top of damage meter, and it’s there because of SnD. Makes other buttons seems less impactful.
7 Likes
I agree with you 100% on a topic. It just feels uncomfortable having just 1 more CP spender for upkeep. I mean,in the course of time they’ve changed so much about every class and specc,made it more interactive,enjoyable to play. With S&D back,it just feels like going back without real,fresh ideas where to go next with the class. And I would understand it if it was implemented into 1 of specs for some reason. But having it as “must” for all 3? Feels like degrading of a class after all this time.
1 Like
As Outlaw (because others spes aren’t worthy to play right now, except Sludgefist as Sub Rogue), the kit is overloaded and awful to play.
You have to track SnD, RtB (god I hate this spell with a passion), BtE debuff on the good target, and if you play MfD, it’s another thing to track because the CD is reduced with Retentless, or the CD is reset. It’s too much, and not fun at all.
There is a reason why they removed this spell back in Legion, why adding it back ? It’s cool for Classic, not Retail.
Allow Rogue to have more modern gameplay.
7 Likes
Speaking of tracking these outlaw buffs. You know any good weakauras/addons for outlaw rogue?
Oh boy do i remember beta, when every other rogue was praising blizz for returning this iconic tm spell. How it “took much skill to use correctly”. A lot of people died on that hill. Turns out the correct way to use it is pretty much to maintain it at all times in raids and don’t touch it in pvp at all. I see some acolytes of the snd cult still lurking around, but their numbers are thankfully dwindling.
I would like a useful skill instead. Like a raid-wide utility. “You can save the situation with this” -button, not “you’ll lose some dps if you don’t press it every ~40 sec” - button. Hell, i’ll even take more flavor skills, like pickpocket and distract, those are fun.
Honestly, i don’t even hate this spell. It’s hard to feel strong emotions about something this dull. The greatest sin of it - it makes openers more awkward.
7 Likes
I’ve taken bits and pieces from 3 separate weakauras to make a centralized UI with Energy, CP and RTB including reroll logic
You can have a look at it in action here:
http s://app.squadov.gg/share/df142986-3b85-40aa-92a9-ac05bc1bc3b0
If you’re interested just hit me up in the game sometime
1 Like
Cut to the Chase is a welcome change but it just shows that Blizzard aren’t really doing much testing of the Rogue. Otherwise they would have known from the beginning that Assassination’s rotation is cluttered.
1 Like
A mediocre but fast solution for Outlaw may be changing RtB to give minimum 2 buffs, one of which is the SnD buff fixed. Assassination and subtlety are in a bad place PvE-wise regardless of the recent buffs to Assassination unless you have high iLvl gear to match some certain thresholds. Rogues are in general in a bad place for this expansion compared to most meta classes/specs. And yet Blizzard keeps buffing Convoke for druids. Ah my bad not Blizzard but Activision-Blizzard I should say.
That feeling when you suddenly tottaly unexpected have 5 buffs roll when you rerolling to finish the pack and have no way to fully utilize it for entire duration…
its just so memmorable when you are getting such roll once or twice a day…