Its part of the class. Those decisions and how you make them is where I can set myself apart from other players so yes, I enjoy that very much.
Wow, such a big decision to press a button that only increase your attack speed every XX seconds. Stop with this.
BtE need some decision, every CD damage increased, even RtB need some decision. SnD ? I’m sorry but no, it’s just a boring maintenance buff you need to press every XX seconds. This ability dosn’t fit in Modern Warcraft.
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I promise you, SnD has absolutely no impact on the difference between Rogues in high end PVE content. The dps rotation in general is only a very small part of the complexity of modern WoW.
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They should remove it.
But we all know that they gonna remove it in next expansion.
Or, they could also make it a passive, that applies when you use a combo point ability.
No one really wants to press slice and dice, but more attack speed can be beneficial, especially for sub and outlaw.
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I would be okay with that, but like I previously mentioned I wouldn’t want blizzard to remove one ability and just add a passive. It would be nice if they implemented a new ability instead of SnD like a situational CD for example: ‘your damaging abilities deal shadow damage instead of physical damage and heal you for 10% of the damage done for the next 20 seconds’.
Maybe a bit OP, but you get the jist. This would be very useful on specific encounters and obviously in certain PvP situations and you would need skill/knowledge of when to use it.
This is obviously an example, but the point is that I would like this new hypothetical ability to be something that is situational, but can give players a nice DPS boost if they know what they are doing… not just something that they know that they need to press all the time and keep up for 95% of a dungeon.
I personally hate SnD and Shiv, especially as Sin. Without these two we would have 6 things for standard rotation (Poisoned Knife, FoK, Garrote, Rupture, Mutilate, Envenom + even more if we choose talent and if we count KS), and that in my opinion would be quite enough. I think we’re a little overwhelmed with these two boring things. I know some people don’t put Poisoned Knife in standard rotation, but trust me it’s very useful when when you need just one cp, because realistically there is no need to overcap cps with Mutilate if you need just one cp.
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Having tried rogue again, i have to say that slice and dice is indeed pretty annoying to deal with, it’s not difficult, it just feels unfulfilling as a button.
As i said before just merge it, when you use a combo point ability you automatically cast slice and dice, or just remove it.
What’s the point of an ability that makes you feel like, man i wish i was using something else…
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Exactly. Every spell should have a possibility for a moment of glory. “A crit from eviscerate finished my target in a heart bit”, “i killed a hard mob by placing bleeds on it and kiting/it kept my target from getting a clean restealth”, “i pressed my cooldowns and my damage went through the roof”. Even a builder like mut can generate you 4 combo points if it double crits and that’s pretty fun. SnD? Nothing you do with it can possibly be exciting. And that’s a crime for a finisher. “But it separates a good rogue from bad ones” - so is literally every other button. You can create a macro with “/yell I’m better than you!” and press it every 40 seconds - the impact would be the same.
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I honestly feel the opposite, especially choosing the premeditation talent in the first talent row. I only refresh outside of shadow dance windows when waiting for symbols. The uptime synergies with the shadowy techniques passive which grants combo points on auto attacks.
I actually feel like slice and dice is clunky with assassination. Especially in pvp. It feels like such a chore getting your bleeds up and then slice and dice. I know the new passive allows envelom to extend slice and dice duration, but it messes with the opener if trying to get out instant pressure outside of your vendetta.
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The thread is mainly focused on SnD in PVE, not PvP. There is quite the difference ^^
Exactly. Sin already has a slow rotation and Shiv and SnD make it even slower. You know you need to press them because you will have a slightly higher dps but at the same time you are wasting a lot of time. Realistically they need to get rid of those two things and buff a bit poisons and bleeds.
Apologies. My mistake for totally overlooking your references to PvE in your original post…
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Uhm yeah sorry, it wasn’t actually specified ^^ but you are right that SnD works very differently in PvP! In PvE and especially during raid encounters it is a completely different story where it is more of a constant chore that has little decision making processes involved. Where:
Not refreshing SnD in 95% of all situations = damage loss.
Just make SnD passive easy fix …
How would you remove a spell that is a element of sl on a main feature legendary…
I agree SnD had more sense when all three specs had others CP spender used in different situations: Expose Armor, Rupture, Recuperation. I suppose players who play since vanilla/TBC are glad to have it back.
Keep all that in mind, I think in modern days it would be good when all specs will have a choice Sub have - make it semi passive or full pasive ability (for a price, like a slot in a talent row) or you can leave it on your active ability bar with one talent free to choose.
It can be under Premeditation talent (semi passive), it can be under Alacricity talent (isn’t the prime reason to Al to even show up on a talent row? To replace SnD?).
And I always said that: the main mistake I see now is too much simplicity and lack of choice in design of classes. One guy want more simplicity in mechanic, other would have fun if he get more old spells and abilities he used to it playing over the years.
F.ex. Sub had 1h weapon other than a Dagger in MH erlier from Vanilla to WoD, Hemo to help keep sustain dmg, Sanguinary Vein - to intensify bleed dmg. No more. And warrior got back I think all or almost all abilities, even the ones not needed in rotation + 1h weapon, monk got his 2h stick and spear back, Frost DK got his 2h weapon back with ease.
How much problem it is to give a choice trough glyphs to choose between Shadowstrike and Ambush visuals and sounds, to choose if you want to be pirate or a warrior wearing leather, to hold a fist weapon or a dagger… Etc, etc. Tough life 
If you talk about Celerity then it would be a pretty easy fix.
You mean, the RNG Leg for more RNG ?
Just move it into RtB.
Or just delete RtB and make a new leg.
In bfa rogue worked perfectly without sNd,sometimes watching my rogue doing 5mask vision I can see the rotation was much smoother,now you have to buff yourself before fighting and in combat,RTb,snd
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