As assassination you just have to apply it once, and unless you play really bad, you need to reapply it.
I understand it’s only assassination? Not really understanding that tbh, should be rogue-wide.
Can also make it a passive every time you use envenom or something. I myself quite like it, you see a faster attacking rogue.
I know this is totally offtopic, but when I see these often serious posts written by cute vulperas… It’s just make my day 
For all it’s issues, slice and dice is increasing the pace of subtlety rogue by quite a bit and you only have to refresh it at most 2 times per minute, I really don’t see how its such a big issue.
If they would remove it they would have to compensate a lot and i doubt Blizzard will get that right.
I see what you’re doing here
I just want our basic abilites to do more damage. Instead of spending most of time on bufffing myself.
You mainly do pvp right?
I find SnD tolerable in PvP and Raiding because these fights/encounters are typically lengthy and built around setup anyway.
But SnD really sucks in M+ which are much more comparable to an Action rpg. I wish that we at least had a talent for M+ which allowed us to trade SnD + single target damage for a more AOE focused talent that fits the gameplay of M+ better.
I enjoy SnD in M+. When I want to have a faster start I choose Premeditation talent, and I’m good.
i know the trimming of classes was a problem back in legion but outlaw was perfect imo i loved everything about it yes even roll the bones as it was a gamble and well outlaws gamble with odds all the time.
bow with between the eyes loosing its stun SaD baing made baseline its just not what it used to be.
Outlaw is garbage to play since first release. Legion was at least cool because you had Loaded Dice, 6 dices, and some passives abilities proc.
The only good thing now is Count the odd, when this crap want to proc because it’s still RNG.
Personally I think the SS/Pistol proc of Outlaw is even worse RNG than Rtb.
its ok i gotten used to it now but liked it better when it was build in the assassination spec, its like the dev think how can we add more buttons to press and call it skill.
Marked for Death is the M+ talent that makes SnD amazing. You just use it on the last mob in a pack as it’s about to die, get a full SnD, then it resets and you start the next pack with full SnD.
It actively makes BladeFlurry so much better as well for AoE so i don’t understand why you think it’s not an AoE ability?
It’s just annoying to use in M+. It’s annoying to have to use your MfD on SnD. And it making Blade Flurry better is just a matter of tuning. SnD is just not a fun or engaging ability to use in M+ in my opinion and I know a lot of other Rogues feel the same.
With the buff to shadow techniques, SnD will be even more important to keep up. As I previously mentioned, SnD is one of the least exciting abilities as it is a chore rather than a choice. It feels a bit like playing a Paladin in classic wow where every 5 minutes you have to rebuff your group with different blessing, except that SnD needs to be refreshed even more often.
Yes, it requires a certain degree of skill to optimally use SnD, similar to every other ability in WoW.
I very much agree with Caleb:
If SnD is to remain, they should at least give sub rogue cut to the chase. Personally, I would prefer something else as I mentioned in the OP. Sub rogue has slowly become the “shadow” melee DPS and I think this is something blizzard could expand even more upon. The most simple solution would be to remove SnD and give sub rogue secret technique as a baseline ability, perhaps even making secret technique deal shadow damage instead of physical. However, there is certainly room for other cool abilities.
I honestly don’t understand why any sub rogue would want to defend SnD, but there’s no accounting for taste I suppose.
Any meaningful SnD change would have to happen in 10.0 beta. At this point it’s a massive dps loss to get rid of SnD. I don’t see how its such a big deal.
Why is it so bad? I understand why it was trash for assassination which already struggles with bad apm and barely having globals to keep all their maintenance up. Sub does not have this issue, its very low impact to just refresh this between dance moments.
SnD doesn’t fit modern WoW.
Why it’s bad ? Because it’s doesn’t feel great to use. Wow, I do some hands moves and I attack faster. Such awesome to use.
I don’t care about hidden power. I want to feel what I use feel impactful ! Why it’s hard to understand ?
As Outlaw, I already got a lot to maintain (SnD, RtB, BtE), and it’s too much. It’s annoying to play.
I am not refuting that, but it doesn’t mean that it should stay. Re-introducing it to sub rogue was a mistake in the first place.
First of all I am mainly speaking from the POV of somebody that likes to push high keys. I am aware of the benefits of SnD and how it synergizes with sub rogue as I already mentioned in my previous post and that it has to be refreshed almost twice per minute is exactly the problem. My problem with the ability is that it is a massive DPS increase and should be kept up almost at all cost, while at the same time it is a very boring ability to use and offer very little decision making. Even with premediation SnD feels incredibly clunky to play with and the feeling you get from playing SnD is very underwherlming. To some extent I would even argue that SnD feels even more boring in raids than in M+, because at least in M+ you are offered with a few more situations where SnD is not a 100% up-time chore.
I don’t hate the ability, but I think it is a very boring ability and I think blizzard were lazy when putting it back to compensate for DPS losses when the azerite powers were removed. I think that they could have given rogues a bit more attention than just copy pasting an old ability.
As others have mentioned SnD just doesn’t feel like it fits in modern WoW and I would rather have it removed and replaced with something more interesting.
From my experience, It feels bad because it does not have a noticeable effect upfront. Rogue openers are not exciting, by the time I applied my Rupture and SnD other classes are already far ahead in damage.
If you’re not careful, and you get sidetracked by the mechanics and assignments, you will have your rupture/slice fall at awkward times or in Dance which makes it super punishing. Slice and Dice and Rupture durations don’t line up so you will have to refresh them at different times which can be annoying to execute on progression raiding. It feels like too much maintenance for what it’s worth.
50% attack speed does not seem strong to you? Have you looked at how much damage our melees are doing? Neither rogue spec has meaningful burst, having to apply maintenance in opener is not the reason other specs are outbursting you.
It’s not super punishing to refresh SnD or rupture in Dance, eviscerate does less damage than both snd and rupture, losing either of those is a bigger dps loss than a single eviscerate. If you have 2 dances going into the next symbols window and less than 15-16 seconds to go on rupture/snd, you can either refresh both or refresh one and refresh the other between the 2 dances. I did every boss but SLG mythic as sub this tier and had little issue with this, might be something you just have to learn how to deal with.
Besides, having punishing/difficult mechanics is good for the game. Not every spec has to be a 0 thought whack-a-mole spec like outlaw rogue, fury warr or havoc dh.
Yeah but you’re something else. I mean I used to use your logs as reference for when I was raiding as sub rogue. You take this spec to the next level and see past these annoyances that I listed out. The fact that vast majority of rogues dropped Sub on the head for Outlaw, and later, Assassination - that tells a different story.