Remove the key downgrade after a failed run

Community General Discussion
1

If you are the leader of a group and putting your key on the line, you not only run into the chance that you have bad players and you won’t time the key, but at the same time you get double punished by the key downgrading.

We already have a downgrade mechanic if you want to.

If you are wondering why the requirements for m+ are so high, this is one of the primary reasons, it also makes it so people don’t really want to make their own keys, because 1 it’s time consuming, 2 if you have bad players your key will be downgraded, which it’s not always so obvious which players could be bad, because some people have decent scores just because they’ve been boosted or carried, so while m+ score is generally a good indicator, it’s not the end all be all.

The punishment for not timing the key is that your key will not be upgraded, that’s good enough, no need to rub salt on the wound.

This is so obvious, it’s literally action and consequence, the consequences for putting a downgrade after a failed run is obviously that requirements will be much higher than they otherwise would have, and at the same time, not as many people will be willing to make their own groups.

But somehow they still didn’t get it at blizz hq.

3 Likes
2

You only need to find 4 other people who can play and play with them everytime.

This is why you should socialise.

3

Ok but if the dungeon goes wrong due to another and someone leaves the key holder is the only one punished this would fix that

1 Like
4

This point is literally irrelevant anyway, because it’s not even about that.

Without even considering that your friends may not always be there. Shocking right. Now get out of here with these trifling arguments.

It seems to me that some people just wanna be contrarian for the sake of it. They dig up any argument that “counters” what you say even if it makes no sense.

They should remove the key downgrade because it overly punished players for not timing a dungeon, and also makes it so less people are willing to make their own groups. Answer: Socialize. Even though it doesn’t even tackle the actual argument, it’s just a way to make the argument about something else. Does finding people to play with regularly solve the problem of the key downgrade? No it doesn’t? Could this still happen in your group of friends? Where you are overly punished because of a bad run? Yes it could?

Then why are you making this point? If you’re not gonna put some thought into what you are saying, just get out.

1 Like
5

Yes it does because the key doesn’t downgrade until the group ceilings but you ceiling because of skill level, not because someone is an idiot, leaver, or other lame reason.

Build up a friend’s list, all join a discord, then you always have someone you can trust.

I can pool from three places

A) My guild
B) My close friends who have played with me since wotlk
C) My friends list

If someone is good, just talk to them, saying “hi” can work wonders. Next time your looking for a group, remember that healer from the other day, message him. It’s really that simple.

Key goes down a peg, so what, your group is already formed and you just go again.

Again, the only thing it does not negate is skill ceiling.

Be happy and make some friends.

2 Likes
6

guilds are dead yo

7

I’m not even gonna make an argument with you anymore, it’s clear that you have no idea what the hell you are saying, and have put literally 0 thought into the actual argument.

8

It’s easy to see why you’re having troubles.

Have a great night.

1 Like
9

No.

you will absolutely demolish Low level keys entirely with such a key, because no one would go downwards and only spam upwards with 0 consequence.

Keys MUST downgrade.

not to mention, heavily abusable by guild groups, who could just spam +15s and Fail regardless for 8 runs a week undergeared.

10

The consequence is not timing the key, and not upgrading. They could also reduce the loot in case.

I think you’re making an assumption about low keys. People already are doing low keys for valor.

And even if they were to do 8 failed runs, so what? Is that really a problem? You still have to get the key up to 15 regardless, even if you are undergeared. Or at least get 1 who has a decent key.

11

Been there done that, legion keys didnt downgrade & it led to some serious degenerate gameplay,

brick key>grab 4 guildies/friends/alts>chain fail same key all night until whole guild had a 15 done

Even if it took 2+ hours to finish a run it was worth it for the wekly box

Depletion is a failsafe against this & an indicator of group skill level, if you cant time a 15 it drops to a level you can time

Yes unforeseen circumstances can brick a key through no fault of key holder, but a key is a group effort, if you choose to play with random people then random things can happen

1 Like
12

That was a fever dream, there was never a time where keys didn’t downgrade.

Legion included.

And even if they did so what? If someone takes 4 hours to complete 1 dungeon so what? Eventually the thought is gonna come, we either do 1 run this day or we do a couple of lower runs that will net us overall more gear and then we go up.

It seems to me that you just do not like the idea of low ilvl people doing a highish key and the key not getting downgraded because “skills” effectively, the problem you have is that the key will not be downgraded even though they took a lot of time to complete it.

The thing is that’s a subjective “problem”, the key getting downgraded after a run because your members were terrible or someone important left, that’s not subjective.

And if you wanted to complete the key but knew that you couldn’t do it at that level, there already is the key downgrade function, so that argument about the key dropping to a level that you can do is : 1 redundant, 2 it’s not even that true. Many times what actually happens is that you invite someone that is bad, but you couldn’t really know it, and then your key gets thrashed. Is that your fault? Were YOU not able to complete the key?

So ill ask again, have you guys actually thought about what you are saying? Or you’re just spouting some subjective things that you think about m+?

Because that’s what it seems to me.

You guys make all these inconsequential arguments about “skill level” and keys should downgrade because it would lead to “degenerate” gameplay.

Ok what is this degenerate gameplay? Players getting a piece of gear at the end of the week that is way above their current ilvl because they decided to spend 4 hours doing a single m+ dungeon that they were way too undergeared to do? Well, if they managed to complete it even if it wasn’t timed, then they clearly don’t have a big problem with skills. And that is without considering how long it could have taken to get that key up to that level, because let’s say that you were undergeared the whole time, then we can safely assume that the first few keys were easy, and as you were getting them to +10 and beyond you probably started wiping and not timing the keys quite a few times, and the closer you get to 15 the more difficult it would get, so you may have done a lot of runs before you actually get the 15 key, even if it didn’t downgrade it would still take a lot of time, much more than what most people would be willing to put in.

And if they can get 1 high level key from another player in their guild, that’s also not your business frankly speaking. if those people are willing to spend hours and hours wiping just so they can get a good piece of loot at the end of the week, i don’t see the problem with that.

13

Your opinion is subjective too. You’re either trolling now or are just an idiot.

14

With you on this one comrade.

1 Like
15

You having a problem with high level loot going to low ilvl players, effectively having a problem with low ilvl players doing high keys and getting a good piece of loot at the end of the week, and you considering this “degenerate”.

And me having a problem with things that are sometimes outside of my control purely because of chance are not the same thing. It’s not a subjective problem to point out that these key downgrade mechanic do cause problems simply because of action and consequence.

It is subjective to have a problem with “degenerate” gameplay though. Like, what even is your definition of degenerate gameplay? Because so far what i get from the argument is what i explained above, you just have a problem with guild doing runs with low ilvl peeps, and the key not downgrading. That’s not an objective problem, that’s just you being salty about low ilvl players getting a good piece at the end of the week, and the key of the one providing it not downgrading even if they spend 4 hours doing the dungeon.

Spending 4 hours doing a dungeon and the key not upgrading are already the punishment, you are effectively wasting time. While you could have done maybe 5 or 6 normal runs more at your level and then go up from there.

By the way, you have been ignored and flagged, you don’t get to call me an idiot, while you don’t even think about what you are saying for more than a minute, and think that i will do nothing about it.

So as i said before, just get out of here. If you’re not gonna actually think about what you are saying.

16

Love it when my point gets proven. You seem the kind of person who just cannot manage relationships and social interactions.

You’re right, you’re not an idiot, just socially inept, I just feel sorry for you now.

And I can see how you have your opinion now as you’ve probably never been invited into good groups due to your attitude, have tons of good players on ignore because they dared to point out you did somthing wrong, and now have so much balled up hate because of your negative social interactions that if a tiny thing goes wrong you blame everyone and rage quit, then moan on the forums about your depleted key.

Have fun and a good night I hope you manage to gain some social skills.

17

Yep, he is his own worst enemy.

18

It’s just a sight to behold.

The sheer lack of self awareness.

What’s funny is how people just project their lack of understanding, and behavior to other people.

Yea i am the one that lacks social skills, even though i am on a forum, talking and having arguments with people, you have no idea who you are talking to, you have no idea about anything, and you call me an idiot as your little pathetic rant, after you didn’t even disprove my point at all. In fact, you probably didn’t even understand the argument to begin with i think. Although you may think you did.

So ill make it 100 % clear so you may actually understand the point, it was never about finding friends, it was never about guilds, because this problem exists regardless of whether you are pugging or in a guild run. Try to start your thought process from there, then maybe you will understand the point.

It’s just laughable.

19

You said it yourself. It’s effectively a “poor stay poor” system.

If a system isn’t negatively impacting someone, why would they want to change it? Especially if it benefits those worse off?

I also hate keystone downgrade but what’s to be done?

20

Just remove it, if you cannot time the key it will not be upgraded.

The fact that you effectively wasted time, and didn’t upgrade the key is already a form of punishment, no need to rub salt on the wound.

And we already have a way to downgrade keys if you need to. The difference is that one is voluntary, the other is not.