People who can’t pvp at 120 making twinks tryharding at low levels and they believe they are good.Twink warriors are even spawn camping they heal more than a healer and they literally one shot people.One twink ruins the entire game because you can’t do anything
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People don’t twink because “durr cant max level pvp” (It’s literally the same s**t, anyway), people twink because it’s fun.
And no, one twink doesn’t ruin the game for everybody else. Twinks have been nerfed over and over, they can now 1v1 non-twinks, but they can’t 2v1 or 3v1; unless you’re an idiot that doesn’t know what CC is.
And if that’s the case, you probably shouldn’t be accusing people of “being bad at max level”.
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First of all, how do you know everyone’s individual motives?
Second of all, isn’t that EXACTLY why people play, because twinking is the only way they can feel superior to other people, and that’s because they actually become invincible, super-damage superplayers because of twinking. it’s like PvP version of a cheat code or infinite lives-code.
Isn’t the whole POINT of a twink that they can unfairly gank levelers that can’t have that kind of gear?
Why do you think “it is fun” to twink for some people? Because it gives them EGOboost, because no one can beat them. When they play OP faction, OP class and OP geared char (which is easiest to achieve by twinking, very hard to achieve at 120), they get to beat up everyone else unfairly, and feel like a god.
Why wouldn’t these egomonsters play it EXACTLY because it’s the shortest and easiest path to psychotic egofeeding, that can’t be done at 120, where they might struggle to get gear, and will meet many much better-geared players constantly?
Why would you say “this is not why they play”, and why don’t you specify WHY do you think it’s “fun” for these people?
And OF COURSE twinks ruin the game for everyone else. it’s like rogues, its like a superman joining a regular fight. It ruins the battle for EVERYONE. And they are not nerfed enough, just like rogues - never nerfed enough. When a rogue wants to kill me in world PvP, I can’t escape it, no matter what class I play, it’s game over, painful, slow, stabby game over, god damnit.
Stop defending twinks, rogues and other ways to cheat, and realize the value of true sportsmanship!
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Let me guess, you’re immediately going to follow this statement up by declaring that you know everybody else’s motives?
Yeah, like clockwork. As expected.
No, people make twinks for different reason. The joy in twinking for me came from creating the character. From choosing what gear I wanted and how I was going to get it, as well as browing through enchants and old consumables, such as sharpnign stones and wizard oils.
The level scaling in BfA gave us a lot to choose from.
I also had fun playing my lvl59 twink and killing lvl70+ characters in Northrend.
Applying your logic, then don’t heirlooms give you an unfair advantage?
Alright, you’ve provided me with 2 paragraphs of literally the exact same. I’m going to ignore those because they’re just you ranting and I’ve already countered them in my first point. Moving on!
By your logic, everything ruins the game for somebody else. Got ganked while levelling? Somebody ruined the game for you. Somebody looted a quest item that you needed? Whelp, I guess the game is ruined.
This is an MMORPG. It’s a COMPETITIVE style of game. That’s how it’s supposed to be. If somebody collects some proc items and enchants their gear, you’re supposed to do the same to stay competitive. Don’t like it? Too bad. There’s no such thing as everybody being equal.
So what you’re saying is that you’re bad at max level as well as levelling characters?
I’m not defending ways to cheat, I’m telling you that you’re wrong. Somebody putting more effort than you into their MMORPG character isn’t cheating. If you want to play a game where gear and enchants don’t matter, where you jump in right away on equal footing to other people; go play an FPS, go play a MOBA or go play minecraft.
Because what you’re doing is crying about the very core of an MMORPG.
You also might just be the biggest idiot I’ve seen in the “anti-twink” community.
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Why you are whining in every pvp post ?
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Twinks help lvlers get xp faster, and the bad faction always losing has a chance to win when they have twinks on their teams and will get more motivated to do pvp again and have a chance to win and learn the game.
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What blizzard should do is implementing the auto-balance mechanic like in counter strike. So if one team keeps winning, the top player will be switched with the worst player for team balance. Also use the CS system to keep bgs going, let people vote for a map, replace players with AI until enough players joined so the bgs can be ongoing constantly and people can play when they want and don’t have to sit in queue for ages.
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After 8.1.5 twinks in battlegrounds are there through exploiting. Only exception is lvl 20 and lvl 110 twinks. Go to report character > cheating > using exploit macro to enter xp on ques with xp off character. Just check the armory first to make 100% sure you are reporting a twink and not just a good player.
To anyone defending twinks: I also believe Blizz should let me que with my max level character on lower level bgs “because I spend time and effort to get him to this point” right? BGs should always be about skill and teamplay, not gear. Using the argument that you spent time gearing your character is the same as me using the argument that I spent time leveling my character. Spending time on a character shouldn not entitle you to do double the damage of an equally skilled player.
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What of the characters that aren’t real twinks and have their experience turned on? The characters that enchant their heirlooms and levelling items?
Wrong. Gear and levels are not the same thing. That’s probably one of the dumbest arguments I’ve ever seen.
This is an MMORPG, gear, enchants and gems are just as important as skill, teamwork and class/spec. If you want to play a game that is solely based on skill and teamwork, without being based on the time spent on your character; go play a MOBA or a FPS.
Except it isn’t.
Nothing is an entitlement. Spending time collecting the best gear available and enchanting your gear ENABLES you to perform better than people who jumped into battlegrounds with nothing but their heirlooms.
The damage difference between twinks and non-twinks also varies on level. The damage is higher at lvl19 and 29, because the other players there still have empty slots. And because gear is much weaker at that level, enchants feel so much stronger.
The damage between twinks and nontwinks is a lot lower at lvls49-59, since all of the on-use and proc items were nerfed (and with good reason).
Also, what makes you think people in looms are equally “skilled”? From my experience, the heirloom levellers I killed on my twinks were far from equally skilled. Most of them backpeddled and trinketted a rogue sap. They also never made use of their stuns, they’d just run straight in with hammer of justice.
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Saying that heirlooms and enchants are close to a decked out twink is lying through your teeth. Brackets in combination with bad class balance also make the problem worse. I have met twinks thay can kill people through one stun duration regardless of bracket. I twinked 39,110 and 119 and in all brackets I was busted. Met resto druids on 70s that kill you through one stun.
Leveling is as much of a part of an MMORPG as gear is. Gear should matter in pve. Not pvp. Especially now with titanforging from questing the situation becomes even worse with those lucky enough becoming even stronger.
Also please read what I am saying. I didn’t say that people with heirlooms are equally skilled as twinks. I said that a player with looms that is equally skilled as a twink, shouldn’t lose just because a twink has gear.
Twinks ruin the bgs of non twinks. Period. I have been on both sides of the coin and I know full well the power of twinks. Fighting 1vs3 inside the enemy graveyard and coming out on top is pure bs and shouldn’t happen. If you can’t realise that your style of gameplay ruins the majorities style of gameplay this situation will never go forward. For me the best solution would be to make heirlooms best in slot for all lower leveling tiers. Then no one would twink because everyone would essentially be a twink.
Fighting on equal ground is much more fun and competitve than roflstomping people who can’t fight back. If you want unfair fights go gank people in wpvp. I am guilty of this too but stopped after I realised how silly and pointless it is.
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No, it isn’t. As I said in my previous post, lvl19-29 twinks feels much stronger because of people having empty slots filled against people with all slots filled. At higher brackets, the difference between an heirloom and a potentioally BiS piece is a grand total of 1 stamina and 1 primary stat.
Class balance is the real issue, and in recent years (post proc nerfs), is the only issue.
I could do the same non-twinked. That’s an issue of balance as well as damage to health ratios.
Gear SHOULD matter in PVP, otherwise PVP becomes pointless. If gear doesn’t matter in PVP, everybody just plays the FoTM character because rerolling takes nothing and has no cost.
We had a time where gear meant nothing in PVP, it was Legion’s templates. Something commonly regarded as Legion’s WORST feature.
Titanforging is a problem, and not having access to PVP gear without doing PVE is a problem. Removing gear in PVP entirely gives us a whole new problem, which is why templates were discontinued.
Except they should lose. If you’re playing the same spec as somebody at the same skill level, gear is the difference between you and you should lose because of that. PVP is made up of multiple factors, most of which I already mentioned.
You will never be dead equal with somebody, that’s an impossible state. You’ve either got better gear, higher skill level, stronger class or better team mates.
Levellers with heirlooms and years of experience ruin the BGs of new players. Period.
See, I can do that too.
Clearly you don’t, otherwise you’d know that the “power of twinks” has dratically changed over the years.
I did the same in Cataclysm on a non-twinked warrior. Shield slam tuning at that point was fantastic. I also did the same on a non-twinked levelling rogue at the beginning of BfA.
The “majority”? News flash, the majority don’t give a monkey’s butt about twinking or levelling.
We already had that in previous expansions. The result was heirlooms being way too powerful and new players getting absolutely gimped by everyone.
The BEST solution is simple; remove this titanforging nonsense, remove the EXP OFF queues, and leave everything as it were. People are going to cry about one thing or another anyway, and if you want to effortlessly plow through the levelling experience without upgrading your gear, there’s quests, dungeon finder and pet battles.
There is no equal ground and levelling isn’t competitive. If you want competitive, play at a higher level.
This here is your problem, this false idea or moral superiority. Ganking isn’t silly or pointless, it’s harmless fun. If you’re so easily stressed out or angered because somebody killed you in a computer game, and you lost nothing but a 20 second travel time, you shouldn’t be playing computer games.
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I have leveled every class through bgs during BFA. Yes some class/specs are stronger than others, but a twink is stronger regardless of spec/class and UBER busted with the right class/spec. The only period I twinked was BFA so yeah, I know full well of the current power level of twinks. The fact that they may have been stronger before does not mean they are not strong now. I would like to see anyone win a 1vs3 on a non twink character. Unless you are close to the best player in your class, or your enemies are completely braindead or all of them new players, it is highly unlikely you will beat anyone 1vs3. Also, the fact that you did this in Cataclysm is, I am sorry to say that, irrelevant. We are talking about current balance, not balance 4 expansions ago.
The majority of people leveling through battlegrounds, not the majority of players in wow. When you have 7 people leave a bg because of twinks and you hear people complain about them in every bg then, yeah it is a problem. Not the only problem, but one of the biggest ones. The fact that twinks are the minority of people queing in lower level brackets is indisputable. They couldn’t find a single game in many brackets after the que split, while xp on ques were pretty much unaffected.
If twinks had a 10% max bonus then things would be ok. Now they are absolutely bonkers. It doesn’t take any skill to reach top damage and top kills on a twinked character. It is practically like turning on a cheat code.
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…Alright? Want to tell me that rogues are overpowered? Of course you do, because there’s no low level balance and rogues have the advantage of picking their fights. Unless you make the game stupidly bland and give everybody the same abilities, teammates, racials and gear, there will never be “balance”.
People complain without knowing what they’re complaining about, I wouldn’t put much faith in the angry ramblings of people in battlegrounds. The last battleground I played was during the free weekend a couple months back, this was after twinks were severly nerfed.
Somebody in that battleground was ranting about a “twink” shadow priest on the enemy team. Throughout the entire battleground, he ranted. He was also ranting about how the same shadow priest ruined his last battleground.
Naturally, I checked the shadow priests armoury and what do you think I saw? A leveller with enchanted heirlooms. No twink items, no professions, no “bis” pieces. Just cheap enchants and potions. Wanna know how much he spent on potions in every battleground? 5 gold. 5 measly gold.
I’m glad you know that. Many just say “lol see no twink queues, proof that twinks didnt want to fight other twinks after all!”. Completely untrue. Twinking is just a little side project that people do in between playing on their main characters, nobody “mains” a twink.
You’re assuming that each game would only have one twink, you’re also assuming that top damage and kills are the most important factor. A team that works together and has healers is much more effective than a team of randoms who follow a twink killing people in the middle of a battleground.
To remove twinks entirely, you’d have to remove enchants, consumables and gear. If you did that, you’d go back to Legion’s template system.
Templates were a bad system, which is why they were scrapped in the first place.
Battlegrounds, like life, aren’t fair. You’re not on equal footing with everybody else, and no matter how much feminists and socialists cry about “imbalance”, there is no perfect solution.
The best solution, as I previously stated, is for you to stop crying and leave people to have their bit of fun. Blizzard intervenes with twinks when they get out of hand; such as the ramstein’s trinket nerf and the proc item nerfs, as well as the nerfs to the old lvl1 100% dodge twinks.
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what if you don’t use a macro?
of course it is possible to win 1v3 on a non twink char by knowing your class better than your opponent and knowing his class better than him and outplaying him and CC’ing and separating and kiting them etc and use some consumables. Just as it is possible in almost any other game. Why shouldn’t it be in WoW? Do you want Wow to be a communistic game where everything is equal? like seriously…
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I miss my twinking days in end of Vanilla.
in 10-19 all the twinks from both sides knew each others and we were actually a lot to do it, and it was really enjoyable.
One of the funniest thing with twinking too is to make a character get his full potential, tweak up every nook and cranny, grinding specific reputation for items and such was really fun.
89 bracket was fun too ~
If you don’t use macro, you have nothing to fear. Devs can check logs and see if you turned xp on and off repeatedly or not. In regards to communism and equality, what the heck has this to do with anything. This is like me saying “do you want capitalism, where someone buys armor that gives him a one shot ability with 1 second cooldown”. It is absurd. The fact however, that you admit you don’t want balanced games shows a lot about the mindset. Unbalanced pvp is what kills pvp in every game.
The battles I win, I want to win because I outskilled my opponent and the battles I lose, I want to lose because my opponent played better than me. Losing or winning because my opponent has better or worse gear than me is pointless and should be left for the pve part of the game.
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Nobody has anything to fear anyway.
It’s actually the perfect example. Socialism is a system where everybody is on equal footing, regardless of your skills, professions or how much time and effort you put into your job.
Capitalism is a system where each individual can create for themselves a better life by working hard. Your example was incredibly exaggerated, albeit.
Heaven forbid that people want to actually play an MMORPG and have a bit of fun every now and then.
WoW’s PVP has been unbalanced since it’s release, yet it still lives on. In other words; you’re wrong.
Or you outclassed your opponent, or you had a better team than your opponent, or you even had a better talent build than your opponent. Gear and skill aren’t the only deciding factors. If you think skill should be the single deciding factor in a game, the MMORPG genre isn’t for you, plain and simple.
No, it shouldn’t. Gear is a part of the game, regardless of what area of the game you prefer. I’ve told you time and time again, so this time I’ll even highlight it for you:
Blizzard already experimented with a system where gear was irrelevant in PVP. It was called templates and most people hated it, hense why the system was removed entirely
In regards to the “fun” part, it is fun, but it is fun in the expense of others. Same as ganking. I used to gank people day and night until I realised how silly it was. Now that warmode is out I think having the option of choosing wether you will risk getting ganked or not is much better. Also you keep mentioning MMORPGs. Well truth is nowhere in mmorpgs is it set in stone that gear should matter in pvp. I loved guild wars 2 pvp, because there you had modes were gear mattered and modes were it didn’t. Everyone could choose what type they liked and I found this very nice.
Hell I wouldn’t mind if Blizz did something similar and created a template and a non-template que. If one or the othet couldn’t find a que the answer would be clear by itself what system the player like more, balanced or a gear oriented system. And please stop mentioning communism. Politics have nothing to do with gameplay. It is much deeper than just “equality for everyone” and it is nothing like what I am talking which is, skill and teamplay to be the deciding factors of games aka: “everyone has an equal chance at being the best”, which is different from “everyone is the best regardless of skill and teamplay”.
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then you need to remove gear from pvp entirely.