Removed+given pentalty

With that attitude I am guessing you did something to get the kick.

Totally innocent?

Honestly any system like this is rife and prone to abuse, and it’s only getting worse now that Blizzard are making an already janky system more damaging when abused.
Absolutely needs to be a limiting factor, because if you think 20 people a day need kicking from a group perhaps the problem is not THEM but YOU perhaps.

Blizzard can see EVERYTHING you do, every keystroke every input every word send and received through your character. They just simply don’t care. Because they would rather the faux nice nicey a la:

Is why these systems are bound to be flawed.

I don’t know how many GMs they’d need to hire to evaluate every complaint about every action but I’m guessing your deserter debuff will be long gone by the time one can look at what happened.

A solution is to fix the broken system. It’s really not hard to do. Most other MMOs have far better systems in place. Final Fantasy 14, Guild Wars, heck even SWTOR despite being a decrepit dead game has better CS than this.

When you put power in player hands and have no recourse for it, you get situations like the OP said. If you initiate a kick vote, you too should be scrutinized for abuse.

Do those other games punish you for abusing the system or what? I’ve never played any of them.
And if I kick someone for “AFK” when he isn’t, how can you prove that I knew he wasn’t AFK?

I tried to google how kick mechanics work in those games but all I found were reddit posts of people complaining about being chain kicked unfairly.

I agree the deserter buff would be long gone, however, if the kick was unjustified and they then added a punishment to the person/group who kicked making it cumulative, then eventually people would stop kicking as they would be damaging their own account/progress. If a kick was justified, then the person who raising the ticket could receive a further punishment, again making them think about raising an issue that they know was justly deserved.

I doubt they will do any of this though, because as you say they would need more GM’s, but putting any sort of moderation into the players hands will always be open to abuse.

FF14 absolutely punishes you if you make false reports. You can get teleported into the ‘gm jail’ for questioning. There’s a few videos on YT of a streamer who though it would be funny to abuse the system, they got given a suspension live on stream.

If the person doesn’t have /AFK on their name then they’re not AFK.
Waiting 5 minutes for a guy won’t kill you.

It must be a you problem (or the people being kicked) and I’ll tell you why,

I’m not a hardcore player by any means, and 90% of the time I’m just pressing any button that is off cooldown. I don’t generally try hard to top dps meters or anything like that. I type in chat intermittently,

And guess what?

Last time I got kicked from any group in any context, was in Wrath!!!

I have never just been randomly booted during a dungeon, either as Dps or Tank.

So I can only surmise that it’s an attitude problem on behalf of the player who was kicked.

The whole random HC takes 8-10 minutes, and the AFK can be bypassed by moving or pressing a button.
I doubt it’s feasible to expect GMs to evaluate every “unfair” votekick, but that’s up to blizz to decide.

Plus I’ll have to agree with others. I haven’t been kicked for 8 years and in TWW I’ve seen a single person get kicked for other than being offline, so if this happens to you often, you’re probably the problem.

People absolutely have the ability to abuse this system, but they have no incentive to…unless you give them one.

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Ohhh ! The ironie …

People screamed that they wanted to punish leavers.

We warned them that leavers will still be there and wont fix anything.

And that on top it would punish legit players.

Instead of being adults about leavers we wanted daddy blizz to put systems for us. To make us feel better, not as a deterrent for leavers…

I find all this hilarious…

It happens to me never actually. I’m just not someone to be bothered by a mild inconvenience and feel the need to inflict inconvenience on others in turn.
But that kind of attitude is what generates the problem, for example anything could have happened to someone if they’re AFK, or as I’m sure a lot of people reading know you’re not AFK you’re just going an iota slower for your ultra zergfest tik tok generation of players who cannot fathom even one wipe or something not going perfectly right.

Blizzard’s solution as to everything is take a jackhammer to a walnut, and their sycophants lap it up as if they can do no wrong.

How would you know you were “justifiably kicked”?

I had a character that was kicked from a dungeon last week, and while I can make an assumption as to why, I have no idea knowing because a) the game doesn’t require a reason for making a vote kick (it’s an option but not a requirement) and b) even if the one proposing the kick wrote a reason it’s not as if the person getting kicked is told what that reason was.

Now me, personally, would very much like if it was required by the person voting to kick someone offered a reason (rather than being optional as it is now) and for that reason to be visible to the person getting kicked (it could be in the chat window “you were kicked from group for [whatever the one initiating the vote wrote]”

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And sometimes the person with /AFK isn’t, because it isn’t always automatically removed.
And yes, when the healer AFKs at the entrance without as much as a word, it may very kill you

Look before you pull I say.

Have you ever met a tank?

The number of times I’ve seen a tank not instantly pull something upon zoning in to a dungeon can be counted on very few hands

You know the thread is good when the first 3 replies are flagged

Agreed a reason to kick would need to be mandatory rather than optional for any investigation to take place. But let’s be honest, what I proposed will never happen anyway, it would involve the need for more manpower/GM’s for investigations to take place, I doubt Blizzard would invest in this, sadly in last few years Blizzard have reduced moderation, rather than invest/improve upon it :frowning:

Lol yeah, i for sure got flagged by OP and their little friends/their alts though, which makes this even funnier😂

It should always have been mandatory, and I have never understood why it wasn’t, and not even for investigative purposes but for if not avoiding then cut down on abuse/trolling - it’s easier to vote no when there’s a reason that’s obviously petty or wrong than when there’s no reason at all.

And of course they won’t - that costs money and we can’t have that when we have to present our shareholders with a constant surplus, but having that transparency wouldn’t necessarily mean needing more manpower.

e.g, A inities a kick on B because “low dps”, B is told “you were kicked because [low dps]”. Now B can shrug and move on with their life or they can complain to Blizzard “I was kicked from (instance) because [low dps]”.
AI could be used to determine kick-reason and complaint matches, could go over the fight data and determine whether or not this is true (B was not the lowest DPS=complaint valid, B was lowest DPS but no more than [x %] of second lowest and therefore complaint is valid (you can’t just have the lowest DPS always being ok to kick, someone has to be “the worst”), B was lowest but they were also the healer=complaint valid, or B was lowest DPS (by a large margin)=complaint not valid). It the complaint is valid A is given a vote suspension (they can’t initiate a vote to kick someone and they can’t vote on another’s vote to kick), if the complaint isn’t valid then B faces the same punishment.

At some point (say the 10th time it happens within a year of the first complaint) a human will have to go over them to determine if A or B (this is for every time A has initiated a vote to kick someone and B has complained about a kick, not for every time A and B has interacted) are abusing the system and if they are ban their account or whatever the punishment is for that kind of thing.