And you want to bring it back?
Look at tbc classic:
Gdkp pay2win
Council loot scam clique guilds that feed officers with loot
Ninja looting
Blizzard should really reconsider that decision or it can harm the game even more. Forced personal loot is not a problem
I mean, I understand your concern but:
was never a thing when I played TBC.
it was case of, the more you Raided with the guild on official nights, the more DKP you earnt. DKP reset (well kinda stat crushed) each tier so players didn’t stock up so much that new players didn’t get a look in.
There was no P2W.
If you’re finding P2W is a problem, then find new players to play with.
I’m also disappointed with the idea of ML coming back. People who have never suffered a bad loot council, corrupt officers, favourites, funnel specific players, do not understand how unfair it is for players getting the short end. Some will even come up with ridiculous excuses like you must be a bad player etc. That has no bearing on badly run Loot Councils.
A well run ML system does gear a team. A good guild wants to gear it’s team so that it can progress. In contrast I wouldn’t trust the average player to be able to organise anything well or fairly. Or you have to resort to horrible points systems like EPGP/DKP where you hoard your points to bid on the important things first. GDKP is obviously another spin off of ML where people do runs where the gear is distributed that way. I can remember them existing back in Wrath, not sure about TBC I didn’t raid then. They tend to be more of a PuG thing.
I have been in guilds where my only choice to gear has been reroll tokens because that loot is my own but only getting a few chances on specific bosses a week sucks. Later we had the addition of Mythic plus/weekly chest and if things like the Catalyst system/Vault stay then people would be able to obtain tier, but at a lot slower delayed pace.
I would prefer for ML not to return, even unlocking the trading restrictions on PL would be better. That way my loot still comes to me and I still get to decide if I want to give it up. Rather than having all choice taken away and being at the mercy of other players.
This game has been out for like…almost 20 years now?
All that happens in this game is:
They remove something, add it back, remove it again, add it back, rinse and repeat.
An endless cycle of unimaginative changes banking on player nostalgia.
That’s about it.
If they remove something, you can expect it to be back eventually and then for them to remove it again. Or abandoned it in one of their Map Packs.
I mean “expansions”.
People who suffered a bad loot council, corrupt officers, favourites, funnel specific players, do not understand how fair it is overall. Your bad experiences don’t even begin to match the good ones. I think it’s bad to limit something based on something bad when there was so much good in it.
Let it be for guild groups only (without xfaction restrictions so that we don’t devalue the progress of removing the faction boundaries) and those that want to do PL, Im pretty sure will find PL guilds, as they existed before as well.
I have truly never seen a corrupt council. I have seen ninjalooting PRIOR to the changes where you couldn’t use ML anymore in pugs. I have also seen very unfair PL situations where I cannot trade or another player cannot trade the item they dont want. I’ve also witnessed bad RNG overall from PL.
If they dont implement ML, at least give the option to freeily trade PL, not with the restrictions we have right now. It’s so silly.
It was rare to actually have an objective loot council. Most guilds were absolutely horrendous about how they gave people loot.
I completely agree with you believe it or not om the first part! My legion-bfa guild solved it with counting items and who got most, in categories like marks (set pieces). The second part again: you are right but you also have to have a sense of the guild when you join them right? Like I hope no one is staying in a guild for 2 years and only then figuring out how bad the council is lol.
Didn’t Ion say something along the lines of him wanting it back but the team mostly being against it?
Council loot guilds that force people to give up gear still exist with PL btw just saying
Sometimes you don’t really have an option if you want to raid.
I raided as horde on a PVE server in wotlk, there were 2 guilds on horde that were capable of raiding at the level I wanted to raid at. I was in one of them. The other guild wasn’t an option because they raided too much and too long. The rest of the guilds on horde weren’t anywhere near those 2 guilds in terms of progress and I would have rather quit than having to re-progress everything again, if they would ever be able to get to that level.
Really, the only times I haven’t had a problem with the loot system being used by a guild was when I was in one mostly consisting of friends, with 10-man raiding early in cataclysm and then when I was in a guild as a social in WoD and joined the raids every now and then when they needed a healer and I happened to be on.
You clearly skipped over the part where I said:-
But giving guilds ML is just a curse to the rest of us. ML just becomes the norm and being screwed over with loot drops is back.
That is why some people are upset at Ion’s comments about returning it. It’s kind of ironic, Blizzard created the issues that made PL problematic for Realm First guilds type guilds, their aim was to slow them down with gearing and minimise funnelling.
95% of guilds I have been in over my time playing from TBC until today have done loot very badly when ML is in play. The only time they are forced into being fair is with horrible loot point systems which come with their own downsides.
What is so sad is that those that want ML can never acknowledge there is a down side for other players. Whilst the reverse is not true as can be seen yet again every time this debate comes up. Oh no everything was sunshine and roses for me so who cares if it screws over other players.
ML will become the standard practice again if it returns. There will be no escape and that rubbish about oh just leave. I’d never have raided again. So you accept it and get to see the content.
This debate will never change. It’s the same every time it rears it’s head.
This, this, and so much this…
I don’t say officers would be corrupt or something a hundred percent, but emotions can easily get in the way in such delicate emotions.
Had a fallout with the GM’s girlfriend? Accidentally said the swear word an officer didn’t like?..
…and no matter how well you try, you still aren’t at the mercy of something completely impartial - you could be working for a year to get that nice trinket, and the council would just gift it to one of their favorites. 
So, all for lifting the trade restrictions if you want to help gear up your bestie’s alt for instance, but… ML is generally more trouble than worth. Matter of fact, I wouldn’t mind its existence for Classic. No fights over that Dramabringer’s will between all the melees!
I mean, Barely anyone raids anymore. You think your guild is going to ninja ur normal / heroic raiding loot which is worse than the M+ weekly?
ML was good and made loot feel better.
Also can´t complain about P2Win with WoW tokens.
You can always just… find/make your own PL only guild and boom, your problems are solved. Stop trying to restrict choice for people who want it just because you chose to be in bad guilds.
Since there are guilds like that who miss the ML system, I’d argue a fair compromise is still keeping personal loot as an option in the game for raids. So that likeminded players can find each other and get along in the loot system they want.
Yes it’s totally reasonable to expect people to run their own guilds.
(just in case it’s unclear /sarcasm)
Annnnd this is the wrong attitude to take… honestly “duh just make your own group” doesnt work and that was proven in the past… sheesh ML is a terrible system and shouldnt be supported by anyone.
By bringing back master loot scam It’s just matter of time when they bring GDKP interface offically in the game.
Just imagine players buy token gold and go into the raid… So much money can be made! And it’s not pay2win at all.
I think there is a lot of overreaction aboot ML being brought back.
From what I’ve seen, guilds that don’t do proper ML were failing hard because they simply couldn’t keep up raiders. So guilds will have to adapt by either not messing up with wrongly done loot distributions or to keep PL.
That being said, I also believe that average AOTC guilds should not go with ML but that’s just a hot take, since those guilds are more than likely to suffer from loot drama.
Never seen any guild do ML fair and correct.
For me it is coming back since the content-creators whine and gets their will. 90% of the time they have bad requests anyways…last time Blizz listened to them was when they wanted harder contents, now none is raiding as a result…