There’s a huge correlation between the exact sort of people that ML doesn’t reward - IE, terrible players who are anchors to progression, guys who never pass their trials because they guild hop, guys who never progress past difficulties that you can faceroll and people who protest ML coming back.
Weird, that.
I’m just gonna keep bringing this up every tine you mention terrible players.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rN8XfbFQgdkxvCy3#fight=1&type=damage-done
You’re doing less dps at ilvl 250 than my hunter at 236.
Like more than half your keys in season 1 weren’t timed and they weren’t even at +15.
Why, exactly, are you talking about “terrible players”?
I have been playing since classic and have been a part of multiple different raiding guilds. And i have to say I have seen way more individualistic asshats crying that they require a certain piece of loot than corrupt officers or raidleaders. It has always been about gearing the whole raidteam rather a single player, in my experience.
I’m loving the fact that ML is coming back!
Best reply ive read on the forums.
They just milk us boomers from wow to fund diabolo imortal and actiblizz stuf, and invest bare minimum in wow itself with the $ it makes, they just reuse assets
guilds that abuse ML tend to bleed raiders and word spreads, these guilds wont last much.
even now, with council loot, you can destribute loot even with the awefull restrictions blizz has imposed even more in 9.2 with tier gear.
having ML only be available for a run with 80% guild players (16/20) had denied ninjaloot on pugs as they were forced in personal loot.
this solved the problem until blizz started to artificialy block world race guilds from gearing more eficiently, but still failed. so they will probably bring back ML for guild runs
what u now have without ML and without bonus rolls (remember those) is blizzard artificialy influencing the rate at you aquire usefull gear gear (ie with ur good stats) instead of trading a horrible piece for u to some1 else BIS just because its 3ilvl higher than what u got, so u end with a vendor piece and ur mate without his bis. an then the same item drops for another player and also cannot trade because of same problem.
this is all so u are influenced to keep spinning the wheel longer, not to stop corrupt councils or ninjaloot, because it doesnt. its all about the MAUs and the values they show to shareholders
As someone who experienced both throughout my WoW career I would be still in game for ML to return in some form.
But not as an alternative to PL. At this point you cannot just bring ML back, because then guilds will opt for that and PL will only really see use outside of guilds.
What they can do is what was suggested here before: Loot would not be locked for trade, but instead you’d get something like a pop-up saying “you’re about to trade this piece of gear away. Are you sure?” and if you click yes, the loot can be traded between participants from that point on.
In the end there isn’t a good way to go about loot distribution because of human nature. With personal loot you have plenty that just goes to waste, and it makes both you and your guildies feel bad (especially if they keep the loot drops low). With master looter you get better loot distribution, but the decisions of the loot council are bound to make someone upset sooner or later.
Everyone perceives loot quality differently. I personally had someone call the council out for unfair loot distribution because the loot drop he got was only a minor boost for him, but it was a major boost to someone else. You will never be able to please everyone.
But whatever the case I feel that some form of blend between PL and ML is preferable, because as it stands right now raiding feels bad in a sense that there is loot you will not be able to do anything with (and unlike before you cannot just disenchant it to get some value out of it) and the best way to circumvent this is to get as much gear from M+ as possible, so you can feed gear over to those who do not have this as an alternative available.
The single biggest issue I feel master looter always had is that it brings along with itself a lot of administrative work and background knowledge of every class to know roughly what each needs. It is a lot of hassle most guilds would rather not go into, which is another reason why PL is much more popular: RNG determines who gets loot and who doesn’t, no need for you to think, debate, or ruffle feathers by making decisions.
Keep in mind however that my approach to raiding in wow is closer to high end (mythic) than what the majority has. I consider gear as a piece that belongs to the raid and should be distributed to the one who benefits the most of it (you die together, you kill together and you gear together).
Except you ignore the part where ML becomes the norm again.
This is why this debate is pointless. Unfortunately those who want ML can’t actually acknowledge the downsides for others. Something that will never change.
It’s I’m okay and that’s all that matters. Self interest is all. Not oh this is good for me but I can see that it’s detrimental to other players who will suffer.
It’ll become the norm because it’s objectively the better loot method for gearing the team. If you think your master looter isn’t fair, finda different guild or make one yourself. It’s not hard. Or, like I keep saying, just make or find a PL group when ML comes back.
Everything she said to you went way over your head all you can see is your view only.
if masterloot ever manages to crawl back like an evil undaed dragon; it’ll be abused in every way possible you can imagine.
And no ;i dont want to play in an expansion where masterloot is forced upon me. Thats the red line for me. That is also why i avoid classic wow realms.
I’ve seen a lot of loot drama garbage over loot related problems in a decade. Personal loot is the most logical feature of retail wow.
Some people may think im overreacting ; but im not . I may have to stop playing completely if retail wow decides to go master loot.
There are some good and bad features of old expansions call it talents,raids, artifacts ,legendaries etc.
but masterloot was the worst thing that has existed in wow. It created less diversity; it created bullying, it created toxic workhorse gaming environment ,completely meta slavery and zero freedom in your gameplay schedule.
All masterloot results have been tested and seen. It was vastly towards negative.Not only it was hostile against players ; it was predatory and offensive against new or pug players.
It didn’t go over my head. ML will become the norm again because it’s objectively the better loot method for gearing your team for progress. It just is.
Puny and his followers on his little discord can make or find their own PL only guild to raid with and they won’t be impacted by this anyway.
I agree. I wish the devs didn’t cave in to streamers and world first raiders that simply want their loot funneled to them and eff the rest of the playerbase.
No master loot is good for the game.
Never encountered it and i’m playing since 2006 and with loot council since Wrath.
Removing ML was worst change to the game.
Personally i welcome it, ive never experienced what you describe, but what i do experience every time me and my mates gear an alt for giggles, or every time a new tier launches is the frustration of being unable to trade gear the way we want… ohh i got this trinket, its trash for me, but bis for my mate, but bliz decides i cant trade it… -.-
For all i care keep it as personal loot, but just let us trade all gear as we please.
Subjectively.
Because people do not agree with you , you go out of your way your way to misgender and make snide comments.
I don’t think that’s true at all. From what I see, most people acknowledge that bad ML handling is a thing. They just realize that the potential of bad ML experience isn’t as bad as having to vendor items you don’t want that would have been good or even BiS for somebody else, just because your equipped item is 1 ilvl below what you’ve just looted.
What I also find interesting is that those going around saying that ML is the worst thing every, and how every guild does it badly, never actually say what it was that was handled badly, or how it should be done correctly. So I have a very strong suspicion it all comes down to “someone other than me got an item I wanted”.
And this is exactly what I’m talking about. Somehow nearly everyone does it badly, but I guess we’ll never know how it’s done correctly, or what was it that was done badly, or how not being able to trade an item to our friend even if it was our dying wish is a better alternative.
Pretty much every single post bashing ML like this reeks of a “me, me, me” mentality.
#bringbackDKPs
Bring back any way of actually distributing loot properly in a guild without having to throw items in the garbage bin because of stupid trading restrictions.
Personally I don’t care if they bring back ML or relax the ilvl restrictions on trading. I’m just so damn tired of throwing away loot that someone else could use.
As a pugger i should hate it. Would be good if we could choose between ml and pl. Like if it reged as guildrun u get a ml system and pl as pug party …
Can’t speak for others but my experience has been officers playing favourites and/or simply ignoring bigger upgrades. Little to do with “me me me” not getting loot.
Can ML work? Sure it can, I’ve seen it can but I’ve also seen it fail because people ruin it and the drama that follows because of it.
Doesn’t mean PL is perfect either, trade restrictions are annoying as hell that should really fix that already. I’d even take DKP back over ML 