Can’t say that I mind. This was maddening.
There is some huge nerfs incoming xD
Yep, I don’t understand… actually I do, Blizz doesn’t give a F for balance pvp… It’s like no one tested it before the changes went live…
I entered in a BG yesterday, there were 6 paladins in my team and 7 in the other… Also, the arena is basically a paladin xitxow now…
Before we had DH, Rogue Assa, Hunter, Disc, etc unbalanced… Its really that difficult to balance stuff? It is not.
The worst thing is how everybody reroll to the Fotm class of the moment. That says alot of this community. People can’t just play whatever they like but need to play the most Broken things.
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This really got me as well.
Have we just stopped caring about our characters, all of us? I mean, I suppose that must be the case given how often I see people complain about alt friendliness, but seriously! From 4% of the ladder to between 16% and 20% in 4 days. That’s not just the existing rets being better - that is an avalanche of FotM rerolling.
This did not happen when Feral Druids were overhauled. Wonder why. Big mystery. Overhauls can be exciting to be sure, and attract people. But no, this was far more than that.
Yes, it is.
Don’t misunderstand me - to see this ret problem coming was not hard, and indeed the community gave feedback during the beta. There was a lot of excitement and fear over them going live in the state that they did.
Nevertheless, PvP balance is very difficult. Different classes have different skill ceilings and floors. They work radically differently. Buffing one class may nerf another by proxy. Vice versa, too. Blizzard just tried to buff Frostbolt and nerf Glacial Spike because mages aren’t casting enough. We got to a place where we got rour Frostbolts from 30k to 110k despite it only being a 33% buff. Isn’t that funny? That’s talents for you.
And yet, despite all that it didn’t work. The reason it didn’t work is a combination of 20+ other abilities spread across every other class, many of them found in the new class trees.
That doesn’t sound easy to fix. Doesn’t sound easy at all. I’m not trying to say that it’s okay the game is this imbalanced though, but it’s still not easy. It requires dedicated resources - it’s not something you do as a side project.
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I kind of understand you, but also… COME ON!.. If the company that has all the data, all the statistics, and money to build a team just to test and balance pvp… and still cant balance? Im not talking about the perfect balance, cuz this will be impossible, I’m just talking about no broken specs… Come on… It’s been almost 2 decades…
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Yes indeed.
What you must understand is that past poor decisions by the class design teams has created a PvP that is… shall we say, broken? Busted? They broke it. In fact they spent considerable efforts breaking it. That’s not a defence, but it does mean we need overhauls, and when we get them… things are all over the place.
Class balance is the least of PvP’s problems. Its biggest problem by far is massive amounts of cooldowns with modifiers that make the game difficult to read, and therefore difficult to spectate. That instagib players and cause confusion. The need for addons to track diminishing returns. Visual clarity is at an all-time low. The game is practically arcane, and I don’t mean the spec.
There is still a lot of work to do. But, for the first time in ages, I feel like Blizzard knows what that work is - or at least has some clue. It’s very unfortunate that they overtuned ret though, given their intentions.
I simply want to check out the new retribution, see where it lands and if I like it or not.
Honestly I do believe that is the sentiment of most of the rerollers: Testing it for fun.
Kind of like when evokers were the new hot thing. You saw tons of them. Now, well, not as many by far. Same will happen with retribution. We try it out - see if we vibe with the new spec, then take it from there.
So it is not as much about current spec power (or how broken it is), but how it plays that is our focus.
Hey, I know retribution is unpopular right now in the PvP space. Yet, I really doubt that everyone or even close to the majority is doing it for FoTM power bubble.
We are simple people, with simple goals: To have fun and enjoy the game.
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So this being the case, how come it didn’t happen with Druids? Oh yeah, it has! To the one spec that wasn’t changed at all, restoration. The other Druid specs actually fell in popularity. For monks it appears it didn’t make much difference.
Like I said before, an overhaul will cause some attention. I levelled my Druid up to try the new Feral. Lost interest because it’s still no fun due to the rotation changes and sound effects from long ago, but I was interested. Didn’t cause a 400% spike in Druids though.
I think almost everyone in my guild tried the new feral, to see how it would play and if they enjoyed it. So it did happen. Heck, feral was the talk of the town in every single WoW discord I am in.
You might not have noticed it as much, as it didn’t cause as many ripples in the water as Retribution in the PvP scene. But in the PvE, especially after the Great Push, ferals popped up in their thousands (que was filled with them) - all fresh new players - that want to see if they too will enjoy this spec that is now a viable option. Did they enjoy it? No, so they stopped playing it.
Well, not all. Still got some that to this very day are still playing feral. Something they would’ve never done without the druid reworks. Fun sidenote, even guardian is seeing a surge now as they gotten some changes that open other talent paths and different playstyles. They get tested, some enjoy them and keeps playing Guardian. Most don’t.
I expect in the end that to be the way of the Retribution too. Once the testing and prodding has been done. Most will fall back to what they enjoy the most. Be it Retri or their other class choices. The power level of Retribution will not be the deciding factor (why? Feral is strong, stupid strong - yet is avoided, because of playstyle).
Feral was stronger before the overhaul.
As I said before, an overhaul always garners a certain level of interest, but the feral overhaul wasn’t a 400% increase in representation in PvP and M+. Like I’m sorry, it just wasn’t. Not even for a short while. The reason we might not have noticed it as much, as you so eloquently put it, is that it simply didn’t happen.
Feral went from 1.2% representation to 2.9% representation. So not 400%, no. Yet a huge bump up, almost 300%.
I am sorry you dislike ferals so much. Yet, noone is going to disagree that ferals are less popular than Retribution paladin. Retribution Paladin is the fantasy Paladin people want after all. Anyone that has played Warcraft 3 want to play as Uther. Now, ferals? They go under the radar more, but don’t lie and say ferals didn’t get a enourmous boost in popularity to reinforce your own stance.
It did happen, I saw it happen and so did you if you played at the time. Feel free to ignore the matter. You really are fighting your own shadow and you set fire to facts to do so.
That’s not even a 200% increase, and even after this it was less popular than ret was before its buffs.
And it fell back down quite quickly. Without nerfs I might add.
So am I. I played it as a main from 2004 to 2017. What they have done to it makes me very sad.
I didn’t say that. However I did say that feral jumped from low to higher, whereas ret jumped from a little higher still to 1/5th of the whole darn ladder. May I politely suggest that you quit being this hilariously dishonest immediately? To even compare the two is an absurdity of the highest order. You just discovered the danger of percentages. A doubling from 1 to 2 players would be a 100% increase, but it’s actually pretty unremarkable next to that 200 people gang who got a 10% increase (20 players) - and even when you use that measure you’re still wrong.
2.9%, (or 155k) vs 1.2% (27k), is an increase of 570%. So yes, my numbers were wrong. They were far too low. These are not peek numbers, either. It probably was a lot higher.
Again, feral and retribution can not be directly be put against eachother. One is far more popular on a base level than the other. Yet - the pattern, the spike, the whole phase of people testing it, will be the same.
Same as happened with feral will happen with retribution. It gets tested, some will stay, others will go back to other classes. It hasn’t even been a week, retris are going back probably at the same rate as ferals did.
If you don’t remember the flood of kittycats. I really cant fight you at this point. There is no point. You even ignore cold hard numbers.
Finally, as you lost context of my point completely : People are testing it not because it is FotM, but because they want to test and see if it is fun. Once testing is done, the numbers will go down. Same as with every time these things happen. Be it feral or evoker.
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… whut?
Can you cite these numbers? I find it difficult to believe that the total player count increased by over 240% in 10.0.5 as compared to 10.0 launch. If we assume the same thing for 10.0.7, surely the amount of rets will have increased not by 400%, but over 1200%.
I can’t confirm this. This sounds extraordinary.
Either way, that higher playerbase clearly distributed itself a lot more evenly than it did in the case of retribution.
You know, you keep saying ret is more popular because it’s such a popular fantasy yada yada.
Here’s something you might not know: Druid is the most popular class in the game. And it certainly ain’t the tanking spec that’s keeping them there.
I don’t know where you got your numbers, but more importantly it doesn’t really counter what I said because it looks at player count instead of player distribution.
Some of them do, but a lot of them didn’t. I didn’t “miss your point”, I disagree with it. I understand it, but I reject it.
This is actually really easily explained there are a lot of people who has a paladin as an alt or used to play paladin in the past.
There was a time when Paladin was the most played class in the game but the constant nerfing of it every time it is decent and it being mediocre to bad for many expansions have steadily reduced the amount of players of the class.
We have had 10.0.7 on the PTR for months and it was looking strong for a very long time on the PTR.
So a lot of people where testing out the waters because people hyped it up so much.
This is true but Druid has literally 3 out of 4 specs being very very good right now, but also paladin is the second most popular class at least they where last time i looked before 10.0.7 in PvE.
Class balance wise they were fine. 4% representation cannot qualify as completely broken and unplayable. It just wasn’t very fun because it felt bad whenever wings were down - and for the most part wings are down.
However, I will not deny that a lot of them was excited at no longer being… well, their definition of “garbage”. In fact, that’s my point.
Your mistake is assuming that Paladins were the most played class in the game only because OMG PALAS SO KEEEEEWL to begin with.
While Paladins are most certainly cool, that statement is false. Paladins are not special. You think they’re cooler than all the others and now you’re extrapolating it on everybody. I wouldn’t play a Paladin to save my life. I like fighting them, but there thought of playing one fills me with boredom before I even create the character. Not for me!
In fact, paladins weren’t particularly popular in vanilla - you know that time where nobody had the faintest clue what was good and picked their character purely based on fantasy and cool-factor, and it wasn’t until months later when they couldn’t be bothered to level all over again that they knew. But warriors and mages were.
There are many cool classes in Warcraft, and there are many characters as famous as Arthas - and were it all about Arthas you’d expect as many Death Knights, but you don’t see that.
What you’re saying reeks of bad excuses, and even if it is true, fleeing from a 4% representation class because it’s “bad” and then flocking back to it in huge numbers when it’s good reeks of FotM-rerolling as well.
It’s been the most popular class for a very, very long time. This is not recent.
To be perfectly honest with you, something has to be wrong for that to be the case, and something is. But I won’t go there right now.
I loved paladin in vanilla. The reckoning bombs that dropped people instantly was quite funny in PvP when they thought it would be a drawn out fight.
Can’t remember if it was season 5 or 6 in wotlk that retri paladins were quite busted as well.
Now you make this claim show me evidence of this then.
You claim it has been a very, very long time now my curiosity is peaked show some evidence for this.
Yeah that is factually wrong, but you playing on Tarren Mill a HORDE server in vanilla you would not know this.
If you are talking about classic wow that is not worthy of speaking about as it is not vanilla.
You are literally doing this with druids and you only have 1 proof of this and that is how it is right now not how it historically has been.
This right here is why you keep making claims that have no backing in data at all.
WHERE IS THIS FROM? Because there is ZERO percentage chance it is from Blizzard.
blizzard has not given the API the ABILITY to see how many characters is in the game for YEARS at this point.
You are literally using guesswork here as your evidence at best.
I was taking you at your words before but now you have said to many things that needs explaining.
Say where you have your information from how that source got their data from because blizzard does not allow the APIs to know this stuff that you claim.
It’s a bit tricky (due to it being old data) but I’ll do my best
https://www.statista.com/statistics/276318/distribution-of-world-of-warcraft-characters-by-class/ (2019)
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/pceygn/most_popular_class/ (2021)
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/s6xeva/class_population_in_m_season_2/ (2022)
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dpsvip.com%2Fimages%2Fnews%2Fchart%25201.jpg&tbnid=aYOfWpLiljrzAM&vet=12ahUKEwiQxrWj2fn9AhUFOXoKHTabBYgQxiAoCnoECAAQJQ..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dpsvip.com%2Fnews%2F155--the-best-world-of-warcraft-class-in-mop&docid=mi_tfWl_oXm-VM&w=522&h=222&itg=1&q=warcraft%20class%20popularity%20over%20time%20site%3Awww.reddit.com&ved=2ahUKEwiQxrWj2fn9AhUFOXoKHTabBYgQxiAoCnoECAAQJQ (friggin’ 2012)
https://www.wowhead.com/news/most-popular-classes-and-specs-in-raids-analyzing-player-representation-from-wod-318723 (WoD through BfA)
Sometimes they contend for the top spot, sometimes hunters steal the show, and occassionally you get a brief stint of it being Paladin, but most of the time it’s Druid past vanilla.
Try a bit of Google-fu. Search WoW class repesentation -“Guild Wars” (GW loves to sneak in, idk why) and limit searches from 2016-2023 and see for yourself.
Lmao assuming I played on the same server in 2005 and 2023. Well now.
I was alliance on Aszune at first. Stormscale Horde by very late vanilla and tBC.
I can’t cite sources anymore because it’s just way too old, but I recall them being around 4%, with Shamans being a little higher on the Horde side. Make of that what you will.
Nah. Resto druids are frequently OP all the time, that’s why. Oh, and having 4 specs so you can play everything, that’s a good part of the reason, too.
No.
It was from check-pvp.fr