You’re just trying to word your way around why you should get buffed. It’s irrelevant what happens to Fury or any other spec. Play the game, from the moment T9 launches Ret will be in the same place it was in WOTLK, that goes for Fury too.
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I’m not trying to word my way around anything, ulduar is expected to last 6 months and we’re expected to do multiple percentages less damage than pvp specs such as sub rogues, frost mages & BM hunters.
Moreover, i don’t understand you or people of your sorts, why would you ever wish for something to be worse or not as good as it could be? what harm does it do to the game or your gameplay for a spec to be better to the point of acceptability?
I didn’t think it was right for fury warriors or arms warriors to be so far down the meters as well, there is absolutely no reason that by a phase by phase basis they shouldn’t be able to make specs whom are unacceptable at least somewhat acceptable
Blizzard said in a blue post today that Paladins can go Holy/Prot or go home. They literally do not want Retri in the game.
I am pretty sure there are other people like me who literally want to play only Retri Paladin. No other spec, no other class.
I am sure Blizzard have seen that every single class has their dps spec present in the top 5k parses and all of the DPS specs are in top 10k parses.
There is a tiny exception to this - the Retri Paladin. You have to get through more than 42.000 (Fourty two thousand) parses to see the absolutrly best Retri Paladin parse. And this is for the easiest boss in game. For the rest it gets even worse. You might have to dig through more than 100k to see the best one, while the other classes are within the first 5k with a dps spec.
People don’t understand that Ulduar is going to get even worse - We lose the Sense Undead Glyph (50-70 dps), the crit on Exorcism (another 150-200 dps) AND 12,5% dps on Judgement (the 1 extra second CD we are gaining once we drop T7 4p).
The only real thing we will actually gain is going to be some strength, which is not going to be enough.
10% crit on CS is a bad joke. We need CS to be on less than 3,4 sec cd to compete with the 12.5% Judgement dmg.
DS is invisible on the meters. 10% crit on DS is going to be situational at its best.
10% exorcism dmg is another bad joke. Actually this is a 90% damage loss.
HoW is irrelevant with how short execute phases are + its 6s cd so adding 10% to 0 is still 0.
You can see below my Retri Paladin suggestions for theupcoming patches. (please leave a comment here with your opinion)
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Who?
Do any streamers play rets? Have they ever?
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There are a lot more reasons to bring a Ret than any kind of warrior at the moment. For the time being your life’s purpose is utility deal with it.
There has supposedly been big wave of “pala imba best class for wotlk, play it or be gnome” … forgetting to mention the part where ret is balanced for ICC and the talk is mostly about holy and prot 
…
Not even. Every single buff/aura I provide can be replaced by other classe which brings more dps. So, no, not even utility.
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But who? Serious question, I’ve never seen it.
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Me neither, I dont watch streamers … but heard this sentiment from many corners, even on US forums this rumor goes around, it had to come from somehwere, theres no reason why there would be 654265462453143 paladins trying to join every raid
actually this is completely false and fury warriors are recorded to be taken into raids far more often than ret paladins on Warcraftlogs
additionally, utility is actually pretty much a non-issue in 25 man raids especially considering the meta play going on, even when you’re in a casual guild, use the world first race for naxx as an example, 8/10 of the guilds that competed for it did not bring any retribution paladins
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Other than how ret paladins were in the original you mean?
Which is kinda the point of the thread in the first place 
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This is pretty much blizz mentality right now … even if your dmg was healing your opponent, as long as you have one other viable spec, you are not getting zog …
Also this is why lot of people asked for staggered patch release, its not perfectly balanced … but at least some things suck less …
Well, dont take me wrong, but we knew, or most people knew, that we are getting end wotlk balance …
Blizzard don’t realize one damn thing - Ret is balanced around T 10, which will take at elast 1 year to get in game. And not even then, with these new tweaks, the paladin won’t be brilliant, it will literally be the last on the logs.
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It’s very hard to abstract what effect 3.3.5 talents would have on 3.0.x gear levels without an absolute ton of theorycrafting. Never mind a comparison with other classes.
The amount of research you’d have to do to come to the realization that rets would be this bad is astounding.
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You’re just cherrypicking. I can cherrypick too, there are 2 ret paladins in the top 5 fastest speedruns in Naxx, there are no Warriors (any spec) in the top 10. If you also look at the highest “overall” damage done (speedkill rather than speedrun) you will also see a Ret pala, you won’t see a Warrior.
Ret has pretty lacking dps but they bring buffs/utility there are no shortage of them in raids. Ret is a support class right now, but it gets a raid spot when a better performing spec doesn’t. If you forget about speedruns/speedkills people literally just take anything as long as they have their grounds covered.
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Rets were competitive in naxx in 2008 because other DPS were not doing 10k dps.
It does feel soul destroying when you are parsing 90+ and you’re still behind the warlocks by 2-3k DPS but it’s fun as hell
OG Naxx 10/25 where absolutely no lock worth a damned would play anything but destro.
Where are destro locks now-a-days anyway.
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Ret has pretty lacking dps but they bring buffs/utility there are no shortage of them in raids. Ret is a support class right now, but it gets a raid spot when a better performing spec doesn’t. If you forget about speedruns/speedkills people literally just take anything as long as they have their grounds covered.
Name me an unique thing that Retri cna bring and no other spec/class can. I am waiting.
Yo do not realize one thing. Even in TOC Retri will be bad as we lost 25% damage from the dot that is able to crit with T9 2p. So our scaling is literally not there.
If you read one of my above post you will see that the only thing we are gaining in Ulduar is strength. The T8 bonuses are garbage, situational at their best.
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That has more to do with UHDK, DLock and AssRogue’s ability to dominate with barely any gear than anything else. And fury warriors are likely pity slots, with the premise that they’re gonna be really good, when they get their armor pen cap.
Yes, because everyone is looking to bring in the Beast Mastery hunters!.. lel