Retail will never be good as long as blizzard maintains the current class design

PVP Arenas
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The current class design is a level of toxic that no other expansion has ever seen.

The new talent trees are among the worst decision ever designed by Blizzard because they’ve designed them horrifically. Focusing on giving players every single talent that they previously had to choose, and just adding fillers between them which have resulted in a massive amount of stackable modifiers, crowd control & mobility bloat and specialization that just feel like re-skins of each other.

WOW Retail team under Ion Hazzikotas has done the same thing since he’s taken over. He’s consistently added more and more power between expansions, then created a bandage to fix it, or an excuse. But reality is…

by end of WOD, classes where in fantastic places except Demo which Ion team decided was too high skill cap and decided they didn’t want anybody to play it. But Legion did heavy prunes and re-centered classes with strengths and weaknesses, but then Ion “direction” took over from BFA onward, and can we really say the game has improved in any shape way of form? The gameplay externally to the class has but the class design has become increasing more powerful or was locked behind systems.

Ion Hazzikotas doesn’t understand retail, he understands developing raids, and dungeons, and ‘content’ but doesn’t understand that no matter how good the content is, it is experience through the class. This both applies to PVP and PVE, and Ion has created a game which Content matter more than Class, and its due to this the game is ultimately dying.

Giving every class every tool to become a button mashing machine with different animations is his problem, and this is only going to get worse. No matter how good retail content will be, it will always be destroyed by the class designs. Almost no class feels like the warcraft class. Now i understand people will say go play classic… but using the excuse of “oh you want to play what feels like wow, go re-play the content and give up on the character you’ve invested 20 years in” is a cop out.

NOBODY! would play classic realm besides maybe Vanilla if retail wow had the same feeling it did.

BFA destroyed wow identity, Shadowlands defecated on it, Dragonflight tried to piece it back together but War Within just shows that the sculptor (Ion) shouldn’t’ have the job.

The talent trees need scaping, every specialization need to be gutted and pruned. and only then can PVP and PVE be glorious again.

This also isn’t an opinion, the subscription numbers tell the story, the fact blizzard have multitude of game modes to appease it’s players, but this has just been spun by Ion or whoever is his boss as the reason why retail is a failure. “people want to play the old expansion”. No.

People want the game to be an improved version of that wow. which this isn.t

Get rid of ion!

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Watch out. You might get reported and banned.

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Well his right, the class designs and tuning is outright horrible. Retri palas and VW discs everywhere and some saying as “joke” that they rather we didn’t play demo, well why do they have it in the game then and ask our money for this to get griefed by class tuning like this

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that clown ion hazaclueless is reason im never maining demonlogy ever again , demo/feral main since 2009 and i was more demo focused player and when the “joke” he made droped and all abilites got nerfed by 25% and then removing meta cause their excuse was “DH” made me drop demo in legion and i never looked back since and right after legion feral started to go downhill and it got worse and worse each expansion and now i started playing sub rogue recently since i dont think feral will ever get reworked or be good as it was in mop, wod and leigon il give it a try in midnight but if it gets worse im going fully rogue

and why is that? cause rogue never sucked, rmp dominates pvp since start of wow, rogue dominates in m+ or raids ,you never see rogue be bot tier ever cause its blizzards favourite child just like mage and ret

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I was so tilt I ever had to hear something the like from the people whose livelihoods I’m literally funding by playing their game. And to hear “jokes” like this of the class I would like to play and then see all the neglect on the class while they completely overtune and rework something like retribution to real joke levels of opness and then even buff it on top of it for last season of expansion to add more anger for me. Or lets not even talk about the “jokes” of being called as PvP Paul or whatever, and looking the neglect on pvp and what do we get for next expansion? Whoa new epic bg that no one asked and what is going to be full premades anyway. Sure is smart insulting own customers, but I bet this will cost them at the moment there comes any other mmo on the market that swoops pvp playerbase looking at the state of things from past 2 expansions now related pvp.

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forgot to mention for midnight, we got preivew of new dungs raids got like 95% screen time and what did pvp get ? a stupid ashran recolour and no new pvp talents, no new pvp system for shuffle like diff colour glad mount , classes like lock and feral just degrading further and classes like rogues , mages and rets just getting immortal and stronger, fun game if you ask me, still asking why am i paying monthly sub when we have VW disc and rets that are 1500 xp max getting free 2400

also have you seen their customer support too? people got sent gold through mail and then ppl falsely reported it for gold seling and people got permad and when people wanted to open ticket or talk to devs they got AI responses. Amazing , Multi bilion dolar company btw

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Theyre doing nothing about the state of rated pvp and soloqs, still hours long ques and healers hating shuffles and blitz being wintraded by multiple duos que syncing their que system without penalties for declining invitations.

Theyre marketing some playable housing as new cosmetic thing to try lure fresh blood for the game but that will also backfire once the new players realise the game is waiting 30min ques for end game like shuffles and I doubt the old players are any happier waiting these ques in their playable houses either compared to being alt tab in town.

They will also frustrate the current playerbase with adding some unrated epic bg as “content” while the rated end game is suffering of multitudes of issues going unattended. Where is the PvP content of the expansion, paying 50-60 euros for what, to play the exact same and continue wait 30 min ques for some yolo gameplay in shuffle full fotm rerollers and VW discs and retributions.

I bet the playable housing enjoyers will also be there for month or two and then disappear back to final fantasy and they lose the old guard of this mmo who go to some new mmo cause pvp were neglected too long in here. Thats what I’m waiting atleast, I’m not looking forward for another expansion of the same or the removal of addons and making game even less playable than it already is.

Waiting 30min ques for pvp in city or in own playable house makes no difference to me, I’m waiting play the game in different cosmetic settings which are not relevant for the end game what they turn the game to be since tbc, the game is rated since tbc and they are neflecting it and giving us unrated epic bg and playable house as content for next exp. Thats the real joke here.

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I do agree with you the director guy is weak he cant think out of the box.

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Why he should get banned what he said so out of the box , you cant speak anything anymore in a fake virtual world?

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Wow will never be good as long as that bunch of idiots is in charge

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Problem is we got no pvp devs at all and there is not customer support but ai , game thats their biggest success is abused to milk money instead of investing into the health of the game maintaning its playerbase

all they care about is RWF And MDI

and also RWF And MDI are reason mid class playerbase suffers the most cause they try to appeal to 0.1% top and new players that have no clue how pvp or pve works

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One guy pulled statistics for the amount of m+ and pvp players some time ago in general, we cant really know the real amount ever cause peoples multitudes of alts and accounts in both content but what surprised me were that even though pvp is often called as “mini game” by pve players the player amount looked to be somewhat equal with m+. It will cost blizzard if the entire playerbase would decide they got enough and I imagine something the like is about to happen and already is happening but they are in classic, if we get another mmo those will just stop giving money to this company entirely. They cant afford neglect pvp on this scale for too long or it will start costing them eventually I believe.

Like releasing entire expansion that gives nothing for rated pvp or this ridiculous state with class tuning that they buff retribution across its spellbook for season 3 tww when it factually needed nerfs and not buffs in pvp. The thing I dont understand that why did they use the “this will not apply for pvp” pve templates for every other class but not retributions buffs for season 3. We have rated modes and class tuning is complete nonsensical or nonexistent at times. While other classes are even being overnerfed or treated like some punching bag for pvp they are overtuning some ridiculous retributions designs and buffing them across spellbook and then just leave it like that.

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No. Legion did.

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bfa and shadowlands, trust me when i say this, pvp was healthier in legion than it was in bfa and shadowlands

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Lol legion was 10x better than bfa and sl prolly the best pvp balanciert we ever had
So i agree w razor

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this is sad to read tbh
why don’t you grow a pair and do what actually matters instead of doing exactly what he wants (he doesn’t want you to play demo :slight_smile:)

cancel your sub

I’m not sure why people pay blizzard for blizzard to grief them, over-buff clown rets/priests/whatever, and keep nerfing the classes they actually like and want to play

plenty of games out there on steam, or even better - touch grass

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funny a toxic comment from a person that never seen above 2k rating when topic is about how out of touch devs are, the fact you try to sound smart here and insult people is funny really

yeah lets stay quiet instead of making a thread on official blizzard forums by your logic and quit the game we all love , just because class balance is in bad state atm dosent mean we have to unsub, for me i decided to just roll diff class , solved problem , but expressing yourself suddenly makes me not have a pair ok

i dont need to touch grass i got legs and feet to walk on it tyvm and i workout daily and do other hobbies outside of wow.

Please for your own good , get good at the game then try to insult people here

or actually start posting from your main , instead of hiding behind an alt

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BFA and Shadowlands aren’t actual expansions, they’re Legion patches.
Everything garbage about these two expansions was introduced in Legion.

Also, Shadowlands is actually better than Legion for PvP because:

  • Shadowlands is the expansion that started the unpruning
  • Shadowlands added PvP vendors back
  • Shadowlands still had burrowed power systems but they were much less of a problem than in the previous two expansions

Jesus Christ, Legion turned Soothing Mist into a passive ability.

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“freedom of the speech” in 2025

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Wow PvP will never be good as long we not got ONE employee that’s only task is too monitor PvP balance and keep contact with the community, what he thinks and why he does a change

There have too be enough wow only PvP player paying sub buying expansions and a in-game shop boost or race changes that they can hire ONE dude

Is like Mc D and there ice machine, if they actually got a guy keep the Maschine going and cleane they would sell a ton more of ice then close to NON because the Maschine ist closed

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