You ever heard of the term ‘playing to the choir’.
Haven’t raided since MoP and I am having more fun now than I have for a long long time. Just because the game at the moment doesn’t suit your tastes, doesn’t mean the game is bad.
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The community is better. Not because players are angels in FF14, while every toxic devil is gathered in wow. But it’s better because they’re monitoring players significantly better and are taking care of it. Unlike blizzard which just fired everyone who did that sort of thing.
FF has been around for 10 years dude. Sitck around longer? It’s not a new game. The game is quite solid and it has been so for years, ever since they made the 2.0 version of it.
Are you seriously comparing FF14 graphics to TBC design of hawkstrider? really?
Again. FF is 10 years old. If static was its problem, it would have been apparent by now.
And finally let’s talk about the casual vs competitive aspect.
The MMORPG genre is a type of game that is structured heavily around a massive number of players, playing together, forming communities, doing contents together, etc.
In wow, the primary or should we say, the entirety of the focus is always on Mythic+, raid and pvp. They really don’t care much about community interactions, guilds or anything else. While it is fine for a game to primarily be focusing on high end content, It’s a terrible idea for an mmo.
An mmo needs variety. It needs community. It needs casual stuff. It needs to be more than your weekly vault reward.
Wow has spectacularly failed in that front. While FF14 not only has those hard contents, but lots of things that enforce the casual aspect of the game.
Because an mmo isn’t about repeating the same content for 2 years (mythic+ raid, pvp). There needs to be more going on.
If i wanted to repeat the same content for 2 years, I’d simply play mobas. Or go to fps genre. Where everything is the same, however that’s how it’s liked and is expected to be.
Garrisons were far from ideal, if we’re talking about player housing.
Without mentioning any names, I play a chinese gacha game which is hella pay2win but also provides a lot for fp2 fans - one of which is character housing (with rewards).
Basically, it’s a separate realm you acquire via a short quest after reaching a certain XP rank. You start off slow, as you build furniture. It takes a lot of hours for each piece of furniture (you can make it instant via a consumable item but that costs game currency which is scarce at the start) but once you get enough you increase the future production.
About a month of grinding leads to you having all of the available pieces of furniture crafted (with duplicates even) and can start creatively distributing it inside and outside the house. You invite lore characters to stay in your house and once they like they setting, they give rewards.
That was a very rough summary but I can totally see it happening in WoW. Blizzard can open an instance in the major cities (one in Stormwind and one in Orgrimmar) which player can solo enter or with a grp of 5 friends. Like a dungeon. Inside is a house (players can choose different styles) with furniture that the player has “crafted”, as well as a number of NPCs. There can be daily quests by these NPCs, maybe a weekly event, some cosmetic rewards like transmog and toys, maybe a mount once a milestone us reached. Bits and pieces of lore scattered around. Etc.
Why such a thing hasn’t been implemented is beyond me. If you could instance a whole part of a zone (in WoD), surely you can create an instance like a dungeon for player housing.
Ok, that does sound interesting. My main request for such a feature would still be that you can freely choose who can access your “house” - the whole guild, alts (“accountwide” housing) or just the one character. What I didn’t like about garrisons was that you felt so isolated in your “house” or had to explicitly invite people into a group to bring them over. That wasn’t very “social”.
FF14, a game so designed around community that you can do all the MSQ and see the raids without ever having to be part of one.
But then, as someone who has played the game you rave about so extensively, you’d know this, right? Right?
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Idk about the account-wide accessibility. As for who can access, keep the WoD method with the inviting, like a party for dungeon. I don’t really mind it that much.
What I hated about Garrisons was that there wasn’t any customization. You could choose what building you wanted and where to place it but that was it. No different furniture, no inside architecture design, all the NPCs are the same, etc. If they had allowed us to furnish the insides, at least, that would have been a huge improvement.
What? That wow requires you to join communities to do stuff? Because you can easily not talk to anyone at all and see everything in wow too.
The discussion was about the toxicity in the community. Not the game being revolved around community.
What exactly is your point? Because i don’t see one.
You stated that WoW doesn’t care about community interactions whilst having the endgame purely focused on around community interactions, I can’t do any of the M+, raid or PvP without having to interact with others, without a guild, community or discord groups.
So what way do you want it?
FF14 fosters a community by removing toxic behaviours but is no less developed to be played a single player RPG, whilst Blizzard focuses on having players come together to complete that high end content.
The point being is yet again you are coming into a thread to bleat off about a game that you clearly know zero about.
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Are we playing the same game? Since when do you NEED to communicate with others in wow?
Even if let’s say, it’s an absolute necessity to do so.
That’s the bare minimum. Same thing applies with FF14. Goodluck finishing savage/ultimate stuff without communicating. You need your own group of friends, or FC or as you call it discord, to do so.
That’s not the community part.
The community part is, holding events with people. Doing fun stuff. Interacting socially outside the circle of let’s raid and be done.
But then again, why am i arguing with you? Clearly you’re so happy with wow. And you clearly hate FF.
so enjoy your game. I’m gonna be done with wow in 4 days anyways.
I don’t have to advertise to you what a good game FF is. Play it or don’t. I don’t care.
The point I’m trying to make on different posts are meant for blizzard mostly. So that they could see the constant comparisons people make and things people want.
You’re more than welcome to ignore it.
Isn’t it up to the players themselves to do and participate in these?
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I like idea about guild house/ pub.
More bonding, bending would be between guild mates.
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So I can do M+, Raids and PvP by myself? Wow! How did you manage this great feat?
That is the community, you know what communities are by definition right? A collection of people being brought together for a common purpose. FF14 does it good, of course, but the interaction is fostered through different routes to the way WoW is, but it exists and just because you choose not to interact with it is neither here or there. These things clearly exist in WoW, I’ve found them easily as I found my previously fantastic FC.
No, I absolute love FF, it’s the game I’ve played before I even touched WoW and it’s the game I continue to play to this day, but your constant misinformation is absolutely tiring, you’ve been called out on it before and then shirked off the thread after people who have been playing FF just as long as myself made counter points. You make the wrong comparisions, you get called out by FF veterans and say ‘well actually, it’s like this’ and then still go into the next thread and do the same schtick.
FF14 players make events happens, WoW players make events happen, both companies have provided the same tools to get towards those goals as community formation.
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Well. Call me what you like. Misinformed. The one who misinforms people. Whatever.
However, What i see in wow is, 20 people joining a raid. 5 trash talkers. 15 people who don’t talk at all. a bunch of leavers after a single wipe. Go to dungeon. One bad pull from the tank. 2 people insult him. One leaves.
Then i go to FF. We get 10 wipes. No one leaves. One’s apologizing for being new and unfamiliar. 5 reassure them.
Maybe it’s because FF14 stopped toxicity more than wow did. Maybe it’s all the emotes, player housing or other features they added.
But between this filled to the brim toxic community and FF14, I choose FF14. Simply because in wow, I have to stick close to a small bubble of friends, while in FF i can meet more and more non toxic people.
If you have better experience, or feel that I’m wrong, so be it.
Goodluck.
Now see, this is where I agree but in part because if you were to flame somebody in game then you will get banned on FF14. In part I like this stance, but step away from the in game and the actual high-end and off-game communications are just as toxic as WoWs in terms of raging, flaming others and hate. Hell, prior to Shadowlands myself and a guildie were kicked from our FC because we discussed going back to WoW to try it, hence my move cross server to Zodiack.
I find that there are just as good as communities for high end content in FF14 as there is in WoW, and vice versa. SoD on Alliance for example is the best I’ve saw for high-end content with no toxicity.
Apologies if I come off blunt but lately it seems WoW players (from the outside looking in) just seem to be absolute avert to helping themselves and would rather blame the designers for player issues.
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The community can obviously be good in both games if you look hard enough.
The problem however, lies within the game.
I see a toxic frustrating game, with zero extra things to do. I don’t want to join anything. And since the game isn’t exactly forcing me to do so anyways, I ignore it.
The community isn’t just about finding a bunch of friends or playing with the same group.
It’s about going into the world, Seeing players gather around the capital areas. Talk. Have fun. it’s about feeling it’s alive.
You go to limsa. You see a massive number of players. Some are talking. A few concerts from bards here and there. A bunch of emote spammers. A group of similar glamoured people sitting on a bench. It feels alive.
Then you go to wow. And you neither see that number nor interaction. It’s a bland world. You just see players but no community.
Then like i said, You join the games and the harder it gets, the more toxic players become.
It turns into an environment that not only doesn’t feel alive, but also feels too toxic. And if you want a community, you don’t want to find friends from these kind of people. And lately, There’s been too many of them.
Not to mention every time you open a group finder, you see half the groups being boost sellers, which even lessens the quality.
What i’m trying to say is, Wow doesn’t care about these things. They don’t pay attention to any of it. And left most of it to die. While FF14 isn’t like that at all.
In the end, the playerbase isn’t exactly coming from a different planet when it comes to FF. The game however, is better maintained.
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Never done that… not even Vanilla. Mostly was guild chat, group friends and whispers… as modern WoW.
The only difference was general chat was full of people asking directions and LFG chat always looking for tanks… as modern WoW, although the general chat now it’s used to spam rares spawn and body selling 
I mean boosts selling.
Standard response from people who don’t like it when everyone doesn’t slavishly agree with their latest misery post. Wall of Nonsense? You would have been more intellectually honest to just say ‘Too many words are scary’.
Ehhh, I’ve actually heard some pretty disturbing things about certain ‘elements’ let us call them, of the FF14 community, from people who regularly still play the game. In fact I can still remember the exact terminology one of the people who told me this used, she said. “You play Wow on Argent Dawn still don’t you?” “Yeah” “Right, well think Goldshire, but a bit more subtle, a bit more predatory, and it isn’t necessarily confined to one location”.
She did go on to say that FF is massively better in punishing -overt- bad language and behaviour though, so that is something at least.
The fact that someone only has to mention Goldshire and I grimace and know exactly what they mean, should also indicate that I’m not trying to ‘whitewash’ WoW when it should come to such things.
Ehh, Seven years actually, given that the 2010 version utterly sank and they had to essentially remake the game. By stick around a few more years, I mean it needs to survive the current ‘hype bubble’ that has been generated by a certain balding US fella. Not to mention his fans, who despite his protestations, have flocked to their Lord and Master’s side, even though he didn’t necessarily want them to. Which was slightly disingenuous of him, if he -really- didn’t want that to happen, he knew full well that he could just have gone and played it without telling anyone. He knew full well what would happen.
But yeah, the next couple of years will probably show if it will stand on merit. They clearly are capable of learning from their mistakes however, as the rebooted game shows. I do think that the proselytising cult of FFXIV is going to be a detrimental effect on the game however, but we shall see.
No, I rather specifically was comparing the design concept behind a Chocobo and a Hawkstrider, not the actual graphics, but the -look- they were going for.
As I say, No. The current game is not. If you want to claim the 10 year old version, then we can go into all it’s faults that caused them to cancel the game and utterly start over.
There I will agree. -FAR- too much attention is paid to this ‘high end’ stuff. WoW really needs to dial that in. End Game is not ‘Only Game’.
Problem is, I don’t think the FF model is the way to do that. Again, from friends who do play it, they do say you hit a certain plateau where there literally is nothing to do but the same instances, rinse and repeat.
The reason I don’t think that model works either, is because this is what some people predicted when Classic was released. You’d get to a certain level, max out, and then there would simply be nothing to do. It was even specifically stated that -when- that point was hit by enough people, that they would all start screaming for TBC Classic, and well…
We are where we are now. I have absolutely no doubt that when everyone hits that same plateau, we will see people screaming the house down for WotLK Classic.
That’s the same model as FFXIV. It’s also the same model as Real WoW to be honest. People complain about content drought, yet for some reason have no problem with an MMORPG where content drought also exists? Something does not compute there.
Which is a player problem. Not a game problem. If people -actually- played WoW as an MMORPG, as opposed to some ridculous race to max out and then sit around complaining that there is nothing to do, then they would enjoy it more.
But the key there is ‘Play it as an MMORPG’, and let’s be brutally honest with ourselves here, How many of these bored players actually remember the last three letters of that acronym?
Because if they did, they wouldn’t be ‘bored’ or feel there was nothing to do.
How many of them actually go out and quest and explore and do all the things people say are so cool about FFXIV that are -equally- available to do in WoW?
FF does -some- things better than WoW. Player Housing would be nice, the ability to dye transmogs would be nice. But most of it is all stuff that is available in WoW but people -choose- not to avail themselves of. That is what I don’t understand. People bang on about FF’s features, and I’m like “Err, Wow has that” “Yeah, and that too…and that…oh wait, are you someone who just plays for Endgame? Yeah well, no wonder, you’re playing an MMO, not an MMORPG as you should be…”
You do realise with one exception, WoW and FF both release a new expansion every 2 years, right? The one exception being that WoW actually released WotLK an amazing 1 year after TBC. And people do make the same complaints about FF as they do about WoW, that you’re stuck doing end content for 2 years. People do say that. They just don’t say it -here-, for some inexplicable reason Ponders
If people seriously think there is nothing to do after ‘GOGOGO’ rushing it to the end of an expansion, then frankly, the game, whether WoW, or FF (And both happen in both games) are -Not- the problem. The Player is the problem. Because they are choosing not to engage with all the content available to them.
You ever seen me complain about Arena on this forum? No, you haven’t. Why? Because PvP bores me so I don’t do it (Plus I suck majorly at it 
) but that is me making a conscious decision not to avail myself of content that is available. That content is available, whether I choose to do it or not, is up to me.
That is exactly the same as these negative nancies who complain about there being nothing to do in the game, when all they do is sit in their capital, waiting for their raid to pop. They’re creating their own boredom, and lets not pretend for a moment that the same mentality transcribed over to FF would be any different, because it would remain the same.
You know that actually happens in WoW, right? I mean that -literally- happens on Argent Dawn all the time. That’s not an FF thing? That’s a thing for people who play an MMORPG properly, and remember the RPG at the end bit…
You see what I mean? You think that is an FF thing, whereas it has been right here in front of you all along, just you chose not to do it. (I’m basing that on the fact that you say FF has it, as if it were a new or unique thing) Which isn’t the games problem.
I mean to be honest, what you describe there is people roleplaying. Roleplaying, on an mmoRPG? Revolutionary. If only people had thought of doing that on WoW then they wouldn’t complain about content drought, or there being nothing to do or…oh…wait, they were just playing it as an MMO, weren’t they, well, sounds like a ‘them’ problem, which won’t be changed by going to FF…
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Hold on my peeps. Few days more and new poe league will arrive. 
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Oh look, hinklink is back. Resubbed again to a game you dislike so much just to trashstalk on the forums again?
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