Ok but why is that bad? So exiles reach is pretty much riding a bicycle with training wheels, and yeah that’s fair because it’s meant for new players. Then you get to leveling which is easy but is also a way for a new player to figure out their rotations etc. Then you go to the new expansion zones which are a bit more challenging, you can no longer pull 20+ mobs and you deal less dmg to them, if you overpull you sometimes need to use your CC. After that you go to dungeons where you need to learn tactics and cooperation. Then we go into the different difficulties and Raiding where you have more advanced mechanics.
I won’t say that the journey from Exiles reach to lets say Normal raiding and M0 is particularly hard one but from the perspective of a new player there is an obvious learning curve there which is intended by design.
Oh and on a side note why are you singling out retail? The whole of classic is easier than Exiles reach.
Because i play retail and again i never said anything about being bad i said it was easy.
I hear a lot of people complain about retail being bad being trash because they do not get explained how things work but thats just no true.
while we have all these things i named and i wanted to point out that retail is easy and understandable without the use of guides of third party sofware of sites.
Oh ok then it’s my bad. It’s just that your tread is called “Retail is TOO easy” implicating thats a bad thing, if you wanted it sound neutral or positive it should have been called “Retail is easy”.
Why elitist? Im pretty casual player and I think that every opinion must be count. My pve maximum was heroic nafria and first 4 bosses of myth and KSM. It would be strange to be elitist for me. I mean that it seems you didnt touch endgame content if you say that game become too easy. I usually hear that opinion of people who compare leveling of vanilla and retail because everything but leveling is much harder on retail. You cant say “game became easy” if it containts really hardcore content that you didnt even try. Im mistaken. You can say that. But I wont be elitist if I lower the value of your opinion in that case. Why was my first part sarcastic? Because you NEED third side sites and software to clear hard content. You just cant close 20+ or kill even heroic boss without guides and addons. If youre new player and wanna start doing actual content - you need to read A TONS of information before you start it to be effective. You need addons. Guides contains a lot of information (compare to wotlk guides - they are dull in comparison to retail ones). You sound like you dont played retail after hitting 60 thats why everybody say that your message is bait. Leveling is easy. Raids and dungeons are much MUCH harder than wotlk and vanilla ones. I just dont know how to seriously discuss about it - its too obvious.
I remember an adage that used to describe a well designed game: “minutes to learn, a lifetime to master”. WoW doesn’t take a lifetime to master, but it does take a long time. But it is easy to get into for sure, which means it’s a well designed game overall.
It’s not better for me, I couldn’t care less about it now. I was trying to help you get your point across, because it was not exactly clear what you were trying to say and by the looks of things a lot of people didn’t get it hence the pushback and the “it’s bait” comments.
With all due respect i could go into a very big conversation with you in how many levels you are wrong here and how you get eased into this game without needing everything you just named… but that would derail the topic.
To keep it simple though you do not need guides to read your abilities what they do or how to make a legendary or how to choose a covenant all this gets explained at the right time and if its your first char then you cant even skip that content and need to do it. you do not need dbm to explain tactics because by the time you are doing m+ on your first char you will have run more then enough normal,herioc and mythic dungeons that you know the tactics of the dungeons.
Your baiting hard, if learning by reading information was so easy, players would know how to interupt consistently, wouldnt be a absolute nightmare through certain affixs in pugs. And anytging over +15 wouldnt have such a high failure rate among the pug community.
Trying to say the games easy for the average player is ignorance of every statistic currently avaliable. Proving the vast majority struggle to push mythic or m+ content.
Ofcourse they do. If the information was so easily accessible you wouldnt of made this thread.
As the statistics around content prove the content is too difficult for the vast majority of players lol, no WoW retail is not easy, the game has been balanced around tje concept of the entry level content to be very easy to cater to everyone.
Open world, campaigns, RDF mode dungeons and LFR are all structured to be easy. And very easy to learn but their susposed to be.
However m+ and heroic/mythic raiding, is not easy for the vast majority of players. And being able to read a source of information will not assist and reduce the difficulty of the mechanical skill needed for the content.
You cant call a game easy and then remove parts of the game to aid your point im afraid. The moment ur going into discussion regarding the GAMES difficulty your opening a discussion to its most difficult aspects.
If hes talking about a specific part of this game, this thread needs rewriting.
If we wanna talk about if we think open world content / RDF content etc etc is too easy, and provides no progressional training into these more difficult parts of the game.
Im very open to speak about that, as tbh i would agree. Removing mechsnics from RDF modes is severely impactful as so many think they can manage the dungeon queue for a +4 and get smashed by mechsnics they didnt even know existed.
The progressional curve of content is very disconjointed,
However u cant call a game easy and then say “oh the games easy except The difficult parts of the game”
Got to remember, the average player with open world content can what? Get 255 on armour from ZM + 2 291 legendaries? With abit of gold get a few 270-291 BoEs.
Which means a player from open world alone can climb to 275 roughly.
275 in aspects to m+ is prolly going to mean dungeons progress wise +12 /+13 onwards.
Open world most defintly doesnt prepare u for a +12 key in m+ or heroic raiding. So yes there are parts of the game which could use having harder features in them.
I’m the one who never played Legion and started S4 with Karazhan lower +10 going straight to Moroes and pulling him with the 4 adds together
I never read the dungeon journal, always learning through mistakes
I never ever read in the adventure guide. I was there when Dire Maul was hard. I like exile reach. I choose to play it on my alts everytime because i find it more fun and easy than the starting zone.
I have no desire for overly complicated tactics. Moce from goo/fire/cicles/etc is fine enough for me.
Ive done the hard stuff both in this game and in other mmorpg… i never ever wasnt to do chain healing in Everquest again.
I just want to chill and play.
Im 44 now and i was 20 when i started on mmorpgs. Im fine without challenging stufff. If i cant figure out the tactics without a wall of text or without watching some YouTuber asking me to like and subscribe i simply just skip it.
I play games to relax and have fun. Not to be frustrsred by overly complicated silly stuff
in fact he rewrite the title in “easy to learn”.
Anyway im an example of what are you sayin im an exclusive open world player with LFR fated and ive reached 270.
The problem to have an higher difficulty in open world wow could bring normal people like me to not to play. Since i play to have fun and not to have a challenge.
They could add some “proving grounds” to let ppl learn with different curves of difficulty. Avoiding unprepared ppl to join groups and ruining others experience.
Yes but open world does prepares you for M0 and that in turn prepares you for M+2>3>4>…>10-ish. If you are invested enough in the game at that point you will probably start looking up guides and addons. I mean the game does provide you with ways to learn it to a certain point, but a lot of people do tend to ignore it. You have no idea how many people I have seen trying to que up for high-ish keys when they haven’t even cleared the M0 version of the dungeon.
That said by no means am I insinuating that WoW is easy at the top levels of difficulties. You can look up all the guides and download all the DBMs and WA and still fail to clear even Normal and fail timers on keys.
and again i never said anything about being bad i said it was easy.
