We’re told he did, but not how. In fact I don’t think it was ever explained.
Guess Kairoz and his infinite pals brought them over too?
It’s actually the only thing we need to explain it? Like, for real. We were told AU Draenor differs from the MU in many ways and all of the ones mentioned above were some of those differences.
He brought with him Blackfuse schematics and used the Blackrock Clan’s foundries, who in the AU were a lot more technologically advanced than they were in the MU.
The Shadow Council’s corruptive influence over the Orcish clans wasn’t as overreaching in the AU as it was in the MU at the time Garrosh went back in time to, the Horde hadn’t even been founded yet in the AU timeline.
Kairoz and his infinite pals.
He lands in Draenor literally still manacled by chains with the Shado-pan Insignia on them. I don’t think he managed to slip some blueprints with him. But you do raise a point with the Infinite and my previous speculation that WoD seemingly at one point was a lot more focused on the Infinite Flight’s involvement, which at some point got canned. All we have is speculation and 0 confirmation on just how Garrosh managed to get the Blastfuze company to Draenor.
On a related note, and perhaps someone who read the book can explain this, Shokia from the MoP horde questing team helps us fight against Garrosh’s horde in the Siege of Orgrimmar and even says “Now go, the honor of felling Garrosh is yours!” before the final encounter but is then present at the Temple of the White tiger as part of the group that helps free Garrosh.
It’s just a mess.
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Didn’t read the other posts but I just wanted to say OP that I wish Harrison Jones had stayed dead after Zul’aman and then maybe we wouldn’t have had Uldum turn into a 30-70 split between the tol’vir and nauseating Indiana Jones references.
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I wish the Rambo reference guy died as well. Having him along for the war campaign in BFA was really jarring, especially when it came at the expense of a more serious character with legitimate reasons to want to go after the Horde.
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‘Funny stuff’ in a non-comedy setting is like spice.
It’s great when used well, at the right place and time, and just enough to be a wonderful seasoning to the meal.
You wouldn’t want to be served multiple plates of the stuff.
(Not you, Dune nerds, sit the hell back down!)
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I hope you walk with rhythm
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Uldum and Tattooine have already proved deserts are awful 
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I thought it was a little weak that they just waved off the idea that Zandalar was sinking. It gave an explanation as to why the Zandalari were trying to rally old elements of the Troll Empire way back in… Cata I think it was, and why they were trying to resurrect the Thunder King. The idea that “Nah, it was just Zul or something” makes the God King look weak and/or foolish. It also would have been something interesting to investigate during BoA and added extra tension between the Horde and Zandalari.
Just seemed a miss to me.
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Ah, BFA; the Expac of Wasted Potential…
Free the orcs from outside influence and manipulation by meddling and manipulating them. Would’a made good story in WoD if he was ever confronted about that.
Of course, knowing his shadowlands portrayal, he’d just done the “YES” meme in response to the accusation but as things played out in alt-nagrand it was a whole thing how he refused any accountability and responsibility for anything.
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I disliked how they handled Daelin Proudmoore, he went from being a somewhat sympathetic character to “evil sailor lord voiced by wife beating king in GoT” whether as in WC3, he was more fatherly and his actions were clearly well intended with a soft spoken voice that carried across genuine emotion. There is a reason most of Theramore happily sided with him when he turned up instead of siding with Jaina in favour of the Horde. I think really makes it boring that the Alliance officially condemned his actions rather than being sympathetic or seeing him as a patriot as they did in the old lore.
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This is honestly the last thing I’d call him in WC3. I can’t recall any interactions he had with Jaina in WC3 that weren’t something in the trend of “idiot girl you have no idea what you’re doing just do as i say”. His entire drive in WC3 was wanting to kill orcs.
Though I do agree that the Alliance condemning his actions seems a bit silly, if this is actually the case. I can’t say I’ve ever spotted that bit of lore
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I suppose it’s more the delievery of the lines, in BFA he’s norf fc with a thick layer of passive aggression of “DO AS YOU’RE TOLD” whether as the WC3 cutscene his voice felt more sympathetic to his daughter because of it’s tone.
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But both of these delivers can still be canon as in BfA it’s a vision designed entirely to torment Jaina, whereas in Warcraft 3 it was Daelin himself speaking to a daughter he obviously loved very much - something that still rings true in BfA. Nor did the Alliance at large condemn his actions.
His people cried out for vengeance for his death, but the rest of the Alliance did not seek it. The plague of undeath in Lordaeron had already left the Alliance reeling and its other leaders had little pity for Daelin Proudmoore, who had launched a war of aggression on his own authority.
They just weren’t in any position to claim vengeance for his death because the Alliance had just been torn apart, Kul Tiras, Ironforge and Stormwind were the only member states not left in ruin. Stormwind was at this point dealing with the Defias Brotherhood and draconic corruption and Ironforge had to care for what remained of the gnomish race.
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He went from being one of the most beloved patriots the faction had to the leaders of the Alliance collectively shrugging at his demise with little pity, that’s the issue formost but I think it’s more than a tormenting vision otherwise they would have altered Arthas’ as well. That’s how Blizzard wants to show the interaction between Jaina and her father, they’ve gone out of their way to alter it quite purposefuly to make him a less sympathetic character. More to give Jaina an out for the decisions she has made.
Not choosing to either show support, condolences and basically shrugging at his death is just that. There’s no sympathy for him, at all.
Daelin is still regarded as one of the most beloved patriots of the Alliance, his statue still stands in the Stormwind Castle amongst the honoured leaders of the Alliance. We only know they had no pity because ultimately it was Daelin’s own actions that caused his death - that being nearly leading the Alliance into another war when it had barely just survived the Third War, a war that left untold people dead, right after Gnomeregan’s destruction and Stormwind losing Westfall to insurrection and Duskwood to corruption.
They don’t have to alter Arthas as well because Arthas as a whole is something that has continually eaten Jaina up from the inside; Daelin’s festering wound was Derek’s death at the hands of the Horde, Jaina’s is Arthas.
They are showing a vision made to torment her, a vision designed to tornment her. That is what we see, the Daelin we see in Warcraft 3 and BfA both would not have been so harsh with his darling daughter.
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I believe Anduin himself says that Daelin is one of the Alliances biggest regrets during BFA to Saurfang. It’s not about justifying behaviour of who is right or wrong I play both factions, to me it’s just a boring way to approach it. My english is genuinely quite limited since it’s been a while but I’m trying to explain to you that they made a noble character the Alliance was once a more sympathetic towards in to a full blown villain. I don’t care about whos on the right side of history I care about that. To the Horde he’s obviously a monster and to the Alliance he used to be a hero, that to me is more interesting than “Daelin Bad.”
I’ll just have to disagree. The entirety of BFA was basically about Kul tiras admitting they were on (I hate this terminology) the wrong side of history rather than exploring an interesting story, I remember when people said exactly the same kind of things about WoDs portrayal of the orc clans in the AU and how the old original lore would not change.
(Apologies for the editing, I can see you typing I just have to parse things over to make sure they sound correctly.)
He did. That is why my first post pointed out it isn’t the Alliance at large condemning Daelin’s actions, it’s individuals. So far it has only been Anduin to do so directly.
For the rest of the Alliance, especially in Kul Tiras, this is still true.
They kinda were in this one instance? My overarching point has been about what exactly made Daelin’s actions so bad in this circumstance, given that you admit your English is limited, I’ll guess it isn’t done intentionally. But look at the state of the Alliance at the time Daelin decides to invade the Third War.
Lordaeron, the Alliance’s largest and founding member is gone, its people dead, plagued or worse. Most of the survivors that remain will soon become the Scarlet Crusade.
Dalaran has been brought to ruin, its people buried beneath the rubble of their city.
Gilneas, Quel’Thalas, Stromgarde - all of these nations left the Alliance years before, but Quel’Thalas is beyond ruined with its people brought to the brink of extinction, Stromgarde is being torn apart more and more with each passing day because of the actions of the Syndicate.
Gnomeregan is a radiated ruin, what few remain of its people fled to live with the dwarves in Ironforge.
Of Stormwind only Elwynn Forest is safe, and that’s barely at that. The king is controlled by Onyxia as is the house of nobles, Redridge is suffering constant raids from the Dark Horde, Westfall is under the boot of the Defias Brotherhood and Duskwood is a blighted ruin filled with undead and worgen.
In the middle of all of this Daelin decides to invade Durotar and renew the war with the Horde, he even tries to assassinate Thrall while meeting him under a peace banner - a change I’ll agree is pretty bad.
But otherwise, these actions are objectively wrong even when accounting for the fact he couldn’t have known of how the orcs have changed since the Second War and their part in defeating the Legion.
The Alliance still honours him as one of their greatest heroes and leaders, but some, like Anduin, do kinda justifiably call out his darker actions. After his death the Alliance pitied him because they could do nothing more, they were broken, battered.
In the middle of this Kul Tiras demanded they sail armies across the seas and invade a land they’d never heard of, and when the Alliance rightfully said no given what they had to deal with on the mainland, Kul Tiras left the Alliance.
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