Retribution Paladin Design in 10.0.7

Not only three talent points in Paladin, but also 1 Point in Sanctified Ground and 2 PvP talents and still having hard times against full caster lobby in large arenas. It’s funny how Blizzard recognizes lacks in mobility but put 4 talent points and 2 pvp talents for rets and still the least mobile class.

So to be constructive, the heroic leap idea is a good approach. I think some kind of either instant gap closer or immunity/clear to stun/slow during our current mobility is reasonable.

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Looks like Wings of Liberty (Heroic Leap) was scrapped. I’d rather have leap than the horse, at least it’s an useful form of maneuverability. We’d still have on of the weakest mobility in the game, but at least it would be something decent.

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They are not done with that copy pasta from wowhead and the developer update post

" Maneuverability
We aren’t done with maneuverability yet; we have a few ideas we’re currently exploring internally and will have more to share here in the future. Additionally, we’ve removed Divine Steed from the GCD, since Retribution Paladins rely on this as their major movement ability. Retribution Paladins now receive Blessing of Freedom for free as a part of their Specialization and can talent into a new talent “Unbound Freedom” which provides increased movement speed."

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a bit different angle but still in Paladin theme… since Undead are now light infused via Calia Menethil … wouldn’t it be natural that undead should be able to pick paladin as a class ?

Button bloat: changes went too far. Spec feels braindead now, we are not warriors:)
Most of buttons have charges now. Same button spamming feels super bad.
I feel like single target options are too scarce.
Judgement: we can talent this skill to be casted on 5 mobs total(2 charges). Because of that Divine Toll feels underwhleming now.
Crusader Strike: maybe make it a choice for single target too. For example it can apply Censure (old x-pacs dot).
Blade of Justice: the same feeling, just blunt max target hit increase. I like the idea but it lacks finesse of execution.
Consecration: a lot of people didn’t like it, personaly i like it very much. Maybe bring it back to 10.0.5 potential with talent choice option for those who don’t like it.
Wake of Ashes: Radiant Decree is gone. I would like to see telent choice for that again.

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It is there on the right side of the talent tree it is the choice node of Consecrated blade or Divine hammer (that spell is not even in the game on the ptr yet)
Being forced to deal with consecration is not good gameplay Divine hammer was the old fix for this it is basically consecration that follows you.

Hard disagree with you here also taking the Auto attack doing crusader strike is worse then keeping crusader strike on the ptr right now.

That is a good thing that means we can not choose divine toll if we do not want to take it unlike how it would otherwise be with a 100% chance of picking this talent + the extra talent.

Why?
You do know crusader strike does not do real damage right?
It does 7.1% more damage than an auto attack on the ptr.
This is the buff it got in the 10.0.5 patch before that crusader strike hit for 85% of an auto attack.

For me that is good riddance but i understand if people liked it.

as a pvp player i say this change is a must. all the classes in the game have insane self healing capability’s and for paladin. it come’s nothing close to that. we paladin’s have the highest mortality rate in the game. it’s about time we had good damage and survivability with self healing capability’s like every other class in the game. all we have is a bubble and it doesn’t even last long enough and then we get that Forbearance and have to wait 30 second’s to be able to use another. and when we do use it. the cooldown’s are way to long to make it even viable anymore compared to other classes that have too much dps. Word of glory barely heals me and i have the perfect stat’s. and justicar’s vengeance doe’s reduced healing in pvp too, i have to rely on a healer. and that to me, shouldn’t be the case. specially a paladin where it is suppose to be a hybrid of good damage and good healing to hold out their own. that’s what paladin are known for.

I clearly pointed that i want an option to talent out of it.

Spec feel bland now. A chewing gum that lost its taste. Rotation is too simplistic and will feel boring in long term. Only 1 spender for aoe and 1 for single target. Feels so braindead.

That is a very bad thing. Divine Toll is a keystone talent choise and at the moment feels too weak compared to Mutli-hit Judgement

Why? lol
Why not give people a choice.
" For example it can apply Censure (old x-pacs dot)." I explained in a simple way how to fix this.

You can talent out of consecration it is called Divine hammer.
If you want to use consecration you can use it if you want to have it spawn when you use blade that is the talent that is with divine hammer.

That is how the spec is right now
The difference is that you are getting more ways to gain holy power.
You will do more damage from builders you will not be so bursty.
The focus is not on the spenders the focus is that the gainers are actually worth using now.
You are literally focusing on the wrong part here.

It is not it is a keystone talent choice in the paladin generic tree this means we will have the ability to choose something else there and not divine toll if we do not want to take it OR you know YOU can choose not to take the judgment being spread around so much if you love divine toll so badly.
Divine Toll on Ret for me always sucked compared to how awsome the ability is on Prot paladin.
It is just a 5 target judgment for aoe on 1min cooldown and on single target it is just a 1min cooldown judgment ability.

But it costs a talent point the talent point will not be worth taking because it will not do any damage.
But why is this something you want yet you think it is very bad that people get the option to not choose divine toll if they so desire?

Commading Judgment works with Divine Toll for some really ridiculous AoE. I’ve seen it get close to 1m damage.

Proably not going to last long.

Maybe i am doing something wrong. But Crusading Strikes ends up doing 20-25% of my damage when i tested it on PTR. Just a few percentages behind FV.
With the Physical Presence build it hits for like 15k every 2.5 seconds.

Can anyone explain to me the Holystrike thing? If a dmg ability is holy dmg like say hammer of wrath, why would i ever take a talent that makes it do half physical and half holy dmg?

There is also the option to choose between making BoJ go from all physical to Holystrike dmg OR Holy/fire dmg. Why would one ever go with Holystrike?

As ive seen no mention on changes to Mastery, wouldnt holystrike abilities also scale less with it if changed from holy dmg to physical?

Double spell schools always use the most damaging one when calculating damage (unless you hit something immune to one of them). For most classes/specs it makes no difference and is just a flavor thing.

But due to the two new talents Physical Presence and Searing Light, there a practical reason for Ret to do either Holystrike or Radiant damage. Because those two are part physical and part fire, respectively, and thus get buffed by Physical Presence and Searing light.

For example, if i take the Physical Presence and the Blades of Light talents, my Crusader Strike, Judgment, and Hammer of Wrath all does 20% more damage. Actually more in the case of Crusader Strike since it now ignores armor AND scales with mastery. My CS on the PTR hits for around 13k. Which is about 6k more damage than it does on live.

Also, Blizzard has said that they are planing on adding additional “stuff” to Physical Presence and Searing Light because they are pretty boring flat damage boosts right now.

Ah ok… still a bit confused as to how it all works

If CS would normaly do 10k dmg and i take the talent that makes it do Holystrike dmg, how much would 30% mastery now add to it?

And when adding Physical Presence after that?

Would it be 5k+30% added with 5k+20% making it 12.5k
or 10k+50% making it 15k?

Heh nvm, saw on the US forums that they get the full bennefit from talents and mastery. Most Attacks can be turned into Holystrike dmg and very few to Radiant dmg. So going the Holy/fire (Radiant dmg) rout is not much of an option atm.

As JV is also Holystrike dmg it seems to be the biggest hitter aswell when going for Physical Presence leaving Final verdict only with a proc chanse and range but not dmg/healing.

Focusing only on builder doesn’t feel good. I want healthy balance. Radian Decree feels good. and should be added to reworked spec.

Still, feels underwhelming.

We have few worthless talent choices so no big problem here.
Lol how do you know it won’t do any damage? It can be tuned is it does substential damage, ez.

Rofl, i have never even suggested that. Your assumption is incorrect, how did you even conclude that? Are you sure you are reading my post? Choses ar good, but choosing Divine Toll feels underwhelming in PTR. You want otpion out of it? Its fine with me. More choises = more people happy.

Hi there. Playing WoW since 2005 as a ret paladin and sticking to this class and spec all the years was some hard work. Just tried the reworked talent tree on the PTR. The new rotation is very fluid. I personally like it. Very nice rework of Judgment and Crusader Strike. The Crusading Strikes talent is one of my favorit. Whoever call it was, very nice! Same goes to the Divine Hammer talent → fantastic! The new spec is an absolute aoe machine.

Let´s talk about the most major problem for me personally, since i mostly pvp in this game → Mobility issue!

In the recent PTR notes the dispel immunity of BoF was removed. Nerfing the only decent mobility spell we have really doesn´t improve our mobility (at least in pvp).

Divine Steed → this is the 2nd worst spell (after Repentance) that the paladin tree ever got and unfortunately still has. This spell is just pure rubish!!! It doesn´t matter if i have 2 or 20 charges! It has a stupid long CD and you can be CCed, slowed on use. If it comes to me i´ll remove it, but i know there is a small fan club of it in the paladin community, so pls make it a choice to something proper (for example Long Arm of the Law). I would combine Divine Steed, Cavalier and Seasoned Warhorse into one talent.

Thanks for reading
Sorry for my bad English
All the best

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I’d like to share my feedback about the current build that we know of, and got shared on wowhead.

Generally I’d say it’s an overall improvement. The new defensive options are great, especially sanctified plates, and divine protection returning to baseline ability. The offheal options are also neat. The removal of seraphim is amazing.

But there are still some concerns from my side. While the reworked retri aura is slightly better than the last one, it’s still kind of stupid in a lot of situations. Taking 50% health in one hit may occur on progress bosses, but for easier fights, people very rarely take that much dmg in one hit. But I can already see the degen things people will do just to proc 5% dmg for the raid. Standing in mechanics, tanks not pressing def CD for tank buster ability, etc. I wouldn’t say this is a desirable gameplay.

The other thing that I’m salty about, is the old retribution aura effect staying with us a a baseline passive. It’ll still feel bad to compare ourselves against other retri pallys with top logs, because the top logs will continue to be inflated by people constantly dying around the paladin player with that 95% + log. If your raid members are playing well, and nobody dies, you are simply unable to get on the level of DPS others do in raid grps where ppl die, no matter how much skill you have.

And the last thing I wanna mention, is that while the paladin tree is without a question a massive improvement over the current one, I couldn’t say the same about the retri tree. In my opinion it’s bloated with talents that do nothing but buff one particular ability. There are multiple talents that do nothing but buff crusader strike, judgement and blade of justice for example. It feels so redundant. It’s also hard to track how does the interactions even work between some of these talents, when 4 or even 5 talents modify one particular ability.

Also, there’s way too much complication with different damage types. This gets converted into holystrike, that gets converted into radiant, etc. It’s hard to track what does what, why is it good, how does it even work, what gets buffed by mastery and what doesn’t, it’s just weird, and overly complicated for no good reason. Some of the talents in the last row are also very strange imo.

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They synergize, you throw like 25 judgments when using divine toll and commanding judgment, insane burst.

After some more testing the spec feels boring to play. Its like a broccoli, a tasteless vegetable. I’d like to see some options for more buttons to press.
Our core rotarion is composed of HP builders (Crusader Strike, Judgement, Blade of Justice) and HP spenders (single-target Templar’s Verdict or AoE Divine Storm)
It is a 4 button core rotation (Wake of Ashes has long CD so i have excluded it).
Furthermore we can talen out of Crusader Strike, which makes Broccoli Paladin 3 button spec.
I believe people are overexcited by rework. They jump in to PTR for 5 min and the spec feels great for that short period of time. In longer run thos it will be so boring to play.
“Button bloat” changes went too far.
Could we at last get some talent choices to have more buttons to press?
PTR Broccoli Paladin feels bland to play compared to Live Ret Paladin.

Agreed! I also felt (esp if you make CS as auto attack) that its like a 3 button super depressing and boring.
Judgement has 8! im not kidding 8 talents to boost. Whats the point of that? Im not staying to bring back 6-7 button rotations but this is the other end.
Execution sentence should be baseline, turn evil should be reworked into something useful (also baseline), cleanse toxins should be merged into something. Too many lacklaster talents still