Returning Player shocked

Community General Discussion
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Hey everyone,

i recently returned to WoW after being away since Legion. Instead of jumping into my old Horde toons and going for endgame content, i started fresh as Alliance on a new server and played my way through all the old expansions again.
Classic zones, Outland, Northrend, Cata, MoP, WoD, Legion, BfA and currently i´m in Shadowlands (Sunfall in Revendreth).

But starting in BfA i started having concerns about the Story which only became stronger now in Shadowlands.

It seems like almost all central story characters are female, while most male characters either die (Saurfang), turn into villains or get pushed into sidekick, passive oder powerless roles.

To be clear:

This is not a complaint about strong female characters. In fact i always loved the way WoW had an inclusive roster of strong female characters, like Tyrande, Jaina, Chromie, Alextrasza, Ysera, the windrunner sisters and many many more.

But in the more “recent” expansions it feels ouf of balance.

In BfA Jaina and Taelia take frontrow seats in the story and i can´t think of a single male character other then Flynn Fairwind (who get´s sidelined pretty much) who has some impact on the sotry, at least from the “good guys” side.

In Shadowlands most zone leaders and major decision-makers are women, while characters like Anduin, Uther, and Bolvar spend the expansion being manipulated, controlled or simply unable to do much.

It´s not that i don´t want strong female characters but i do want some male representation that isn´t sidelined for most of the story or passive or whatnot.

The game is 12+ right? If a 12-13 old boy picks up wow and after exiles reach chooses either of these 2 examples to continue leveling, what male rolemodel is there for him to look up to and say “i wanna be that guy someday” because from what i´ve seen in my playthrough so far, those do not really exist.

My questions to the community:

  1. Do you think i misread the situation?
  2. What do the women in the community think about this?
  3. Does the Balance get better with Dragonflight and newer expansions?

I´m genuinely curious whetther the newer expansions continue this or return to a more even representation.

I´m not here to start drama, so keep it respectful.

I love this game and the universe but i want it to be a place for all.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

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Welcome to how women have felt since the dawn of time.

Should there be balance? Yes. Can you know balance without first giving the minority more time to shine though?

However, I don’t particularly like how Blizzard do female characters; there are few I actually like. I just hope they don’t ruin any more and when they bring in new characters e.g. Taelia they use them rather than throw them to the side again.

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The Dawn of the Girlbosses is upon us.

Things I don’t like about this are:

  1. It feels forced
  2. It’s wildly out of balance
  3. Girl bosses feel like reskinned males, that’s about it. There’s no depth, no differentiation in what makes them strong. This makes it all the worse.
  4. Most of these are terrible. I do love Xal’atath, which I think is one of the best villains in wow ever.

It is what it is. Do I mind it a lot? No. Would I like for it to be better? Yes.

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@Nim

I get where you´re coming from, and i fully agree that representation matters but for everyone.

My concern isn´t about women “shining too much.” WoW as i said had always strong female characters, even in the older expansions and that was something i very much appreciated.

What i´m pointing at is something different:

In BfA and Shadowlands it feels less like “giving women more space” and more like removing almost all positive, competent male representation at the same time.

If the goal is balance, then everyone should have characters to look up to, boys, girls, men and women. Blizz has proven they can do it, Legion being a prime example.

I´m not asking to reduce female presence.

I´m asking why male chars suddenly are confined to villain, victim or passive roles almost across the board.

Edit: @Krondys

I suppose this Xal’atath is from Dragonflight or TWW? anyway something to look forward too once i get there :smiley: hope his story is fleshed out even outside raids? cause i mostly do the open world stuff.

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Let me see, some of these may be classed as “passive roles” to you but I disagree.

King Rastakhan, Nathanos, Rokhan, Bwonsamdi (my favourite), Gazlowe, Genn Greymane, Flynn, Mathias Shaw, N’zoth, Wrathion, Anduin, Magni, Lor’themar, Baine, Gallywix… that’s just off the top of my head.

SL you have Uther, Alexandros Migraine, Darion Mograine, Bolvar, Thrall, Anduin, Pelagos, Prince Renethal, the Primus, whatever that lead guy is called in Xereth Mortis… yes I struggle to think of quite as many.

DF well the queen is Alexstrasza so naturally it is more centered on her but then there is a big centre on Wrathion, the black dragonflight with other male characters, Nozdormu and Kalecgos.

TWW is mostly focused on Alleria (hate her) and Xal’atath but Anduin is there for a fair bit, Thrall strangely not despite being on the cover art, huge goblin arc with Gazowe and co who are mostly male, Locus Walker.

And to start off Midnight they have focused on Lor’themar and Liadrin, two characters I actually love.

I guess only you can decide but it feels plenty balanced to me. I much prefer the male characters to some of the female ones to be quite honest…

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wow. “shocked?” really? it seems the title of a 10 min video on tik tok.

For the actual answer i fully agree with NIM that as usual is full of good sense.

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I get what you’re saying, technically a lot of male characters exist. But my point isn’t about counting names.

It’s about who drives the story and who actually serves as a role model. From my experience up through Shadowlands, the expansions feel heavily centered on female characters, they make the key decisions, move the plot forward, and carry the arcs. Most male characters, even the “major” ones, are either sidelined, reactive, or in roles where their agency is limited.

And importantly, very few of them feel like “role models” figures that a player could look at and aspire to be like. That’s what struck me as a returning player: the story gives boys and men very little in the way of positive, inspiring representation, while female characters consistently take center stage and are written with strength, competence, and purpose.

I’m not arguing against strong female characters, I love them. I’m just pointing out the imbalance from the perspective of narrative agency and aspirational value.

Edit: @Teesla jeah the title is a bit clickbait i admit that^^

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Yes, and no. From legion you know her as Shadow Priest artifact :slight_smile: the dagger. Then she’s present in BfA somewhat and then full yolo in TWW and now Midnight.

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Yes you think too much real life and wanna bring it to fantasy video game.

No it not bother me atall that female chars have been more in spotlight. Not think it at all. But since you asked personally i rather watch those female characters than Thrall, Anduin and who ever our male characters.

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Curious what role model you’re after. If they are smart, respectable, capable and either funny or sassy then they’re good role models to me. Okay maybe sassy isn’t a good role model but I enjoy it.

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I mean, Alex’ is a strong and independent mother since she’s introduced so…..

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I see what you mean, qualities like smart, capable, respectable, and even funny or sassy definitely make a character memorable and inspiring.

My point is more about who the story actually gives these qualities to, particularly in BfA and Shadowlands. From my playthrough, the female characters consistently get the agency, arcs, and screen time that let them shine as role models (WHICH IS FINE! Again i´m not attacking those), while the male characters, even if they have potential (like Flynn) are often sidelined, reactive, or written into roles where their strengths aren’t shown.

It’s not about personal enjoyment or preference, it’s about which characters actually get to drive the story and inspire players, and that’s where I noticed the imbalance.

Let´s take a look at some

Anduin Wrynn
Mind-controlled for almost all of Shadowlands.
Reactive rather than proactive; decisions are often made for him.
Hard to look up to as a strong independent figure in recent expansions.

Magni Bronzebeard
Written out as an active character after early events; mostly a messenger NPC.
Minimal influence on the story during BfA + Shadowlands.

Genn Greymane
Driven by anger and revenge rather than strategic action.
Often sidelined or written as a cautionary figure rather than an inspiring leader.
In my Playthrough he literally talked to the Dockmaster and later on to Jaina´s Mother that´s about it.

Mathias Shaw
Works behind the scenes; never a story driver.
More of a supporting sidekick than a central heroic figure.

Even Thrall to look to the Horde side
imo he lost credibility when he cheated at his Mak’gora with Garrosh

“What’s striking is that the story currently doesn’t include a male equivalent to Varian, a confident, competent, inspiring leader whose actions shape the world, rather than reacting to it.”

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I honestly don’t see how Varian did any shaping of the world, he is absent for the majority of the game and then is pretty much angry all the time when you do see him until the end of MoP. It is a great shame they killed him off after that great character development and don’t get me started about Vol’jin.

Let me see, I find Lor’themar to fit the category. He is loved by his people, respected by both the Horde and Alliance, a capable warrior and keeps a cool head. He has been a key member in dethroning two warchiefs, handling Sylvanas all these years and will probably be an important character in Midnight.

Ebyssian is a relatively new character and you haven’t played DF yet so I won’t spoil but he also fits the description for me. I sincerely hope they don’t just side line him now, they tend to use Kalecgos more than any other dragon.

Wrathion similarly is a leader and has definitely had a huge impact on the world and whilst he is young he does leaps and bounds of character development.

Khadgar is an excellent character, even if some don’t like his puns, definitely fits.

I am hoping that Anduin becomes a stronger person now, he’s had development in bucketloads but we probably won’t see him until TLT.

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I see you are using AI to respond though so in turn I’ll leave you with this ChatGPT response:

“No male equivalent to Varian” ignores generational storytelling

Varian’s archetype is intentionally closed. Blizzard moved away from:

  • the hyper-competent warrior-king fantasy
    and toward
  • leaders dealing with trauma, compromise, and growth.

That’s not gender bias. It’s the genre evolving toward more complex characters.

Future arcs are already positioning Anduin, Wrathion, and Turalyon to fill that role differently.

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I so feel your comment about Vol’jin, he was my favourite Character for most of WoW´s History :frowning:

Varian Wrynn for me stands out as one of WoW’s clearest male role models, especially for Alliance players. Across his story, he faces kidnapping, war, political intrigue, and personal loss, yet consistently demonstrates honor, resilience, and competence. He leads by example, mentors Anduin, makes difficult decisions under pressure, and ultimately sacrifices himself for his people. His arc teaches that true strength comes from courage, responsibility, and integrity, lessons that are both inspiring and relatable, making him a rare example of a male character whose narrative agency and heroic qualities are central to the story.

Regarding Lor’themar, i can´t really tell. Played Horde up until Legion but don´t remember much of him. Since this time i play Team Blue i haven´t really seen anything of him. Maybe i´ll give Horde a shot after i´m done with Alliance Storys. Is he the new Warchief?

Ebyssian and Wrathion kind of the same, i´m guessing they become relevant in Dragonflight and further down the line? Allthough didn´t Wrathion also had a part in MoP?

Edit: Jeah i do use Chatgpt to finetune what i want to convey, since im dyslexic.

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To be fair, but WoW never had much issues with strong female lead characters.
I mean from Vanilla on you had Sylvanas, Jaina, Taretha, Onyxia, the other Windrunners.
I agree with you that women aren’t still full equal represented, but in WoW it was basically fair.
The issues right now, for me, aren’t female characters but terribly written characters with even worse story.

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Alright I’ll let you off :stuck_out_tongue:

Okay Anduin also faces kidnapping, war, political intruige, personal loss AND mind control.

He loses his mother as a child.
He loses his father as a child (so he thinks) and has to rule the kindom.
He becomes a strong priest of the light and even teaches Velen a lesson in humility and compassion.
He helped us uncover a twilight plot in Stormwind in Cata.
He survives being kidnapped by the Horde and makes friends with the Pandaren, travelling all the way to the Crane’s temple and aiding against the Sha infestation.
He stops Garrosh from wielding a deadly weapon (the bell) at the near cost of his life.
He convinces his father to be gentler and work together. He believes in peace and fights for it.
He loses his father and takes the throne AGAIN but for real this time, has to be King whilst mourning and fight the Legion and hold the Alliance together.
Did you see the BfA cinematic when he told Genn “ENOUGH?” most people reacted to that with “Manduin!”
He travels around the kingdom in diguise so he can listen to his people and what they really think.
He resists and ultimately breaks the most powerful domination magic in the universe that takes true strength.

Honor, resilience and competence.
I hate that people think he is a “man baby” because he is working through trauma.

I won’t spoil what happens then onwards but he has a plotline in TWW and he comes out stronger and I hope to see him in TLT.

Edit: Sorry totally forgot your other points as I was doing that. There is no warchief after Sylvanas, they’ve gone council mad for everyone. Ebyssian and Wrathion are more prominent in DF yes, I really liked their parts. You should definitely play both sides of the story (though it stops being faction-sided after BfA)

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Lmao relax guy, there is literally a discussion happening :rofl:

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Thanks for letting me off :wink: it can get really frustrating sometimes to get a point across when people just think you´re abrasive or confrontational, which happens a lot to me :open_mouth:

Jeah i remember that xD

i don´t dispute that Anduin teaches some valuable lessons for boys/men in my playthorugh so far in bfa / shadowlands he´s rather absent and or passive. good to know he get´s some more attention in the coming x-packs.

@Vilvert i respectfully disagree, we´re discussing it right now aren´t we?

Edit: Maybe it´s also a thing of the Medium itself, since heavy storytelling wasn´t really thing back in the day and only really took off with WoD and Legion. Maybe that´s why it struck out to me more.

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Gl with that, i know how it goes from here, im out!