Are we talking about same game’s lore or you are just trying to hard to justfity %100 traitor void elves existence? That >horde and the >Thrall’s Horde the Blood elves decided to join are entirely different entities, and only same in the name.
I mean, just admit void elves are downright traitors to their own people…this much tryharding for a sub-race blizzard literally threw to satisfy endless high elf request whinings…
Okay, you’re not even reading my posts. I’m done trying to explain this.
No you just actually tried to avoid admitting it was a nonsensical comparison of two different hordes , the ones Blood elves joined under Thrall and the other one.
I think you would justify either way race-traitor void elves existence because that’s what void elf players do.Have fun I am done.
You clearly don’t even understand what constitutes being a traitor and just want to tar the race with a slur to feel better about them existing. I gave you an exhaustive explanation of why this is incorrect and you just went “no, race traitor” as if it’s an argument.
This is about why void elves are traitors to no one and my argument presented that the blood elves should be familiar with the reasoning of an alliance of desperation after having joined with the very same orcs that burned their homeland a blink of an eye prior. That is all.
Having no argument, you shift to the horde being different instead of refuting how void elves aren’t traitors, going right back to the original accusation of being traitors as if you’ve won.
This was to be an argument from the point of lore, not obstinate opinion. Lore and Story forum? More like fanatical roleplaying and headcanon forum. Reasoning with the unreasonable is like administering medicine to the deceased.
It still makes little sense to me as of why the Blood Elves wouldn’t use the Void Elves or their knowledge as an asset in their arsenal.
Blood Elves are no strangers to using dark powers as their tools. Fel, shadow, you name it.
Guess Drathir’s name was just too taboo for Rommath.
I don’t know why you are taking it personally.I am talking about the void elves and their flawed implamentation at my own reasoning, telling why it didn’t make any lore sense, and why it was never meant to make sense anyways due to Blizzard’s reasoning in implementing them in the first place.It was just a demand-and-supply product.They can create any race out of the blue, it’s their universe.
And in this case, Void elves, were a specificly tailored race to fulfill the demands of a certain player group.It was forced.And a forced products gets as good as void elves does.With tons of flaws and plotholes.It’s as bad as WoD time-travel.
It’s so bad I wouldn’t mind them if they ret-con it.Former Blizzard would never introduce a race so random just to give-in to certain vocal group, but alas.
And that group wasn’t even asking for Void Elves.
Go figure WHO Blizzard is appealing to.
Well, I can’t say about all blood elves, but if Alleria would not be beyond the dark portal, shouldn’t she actually be the next in line as the most influential figure after “death” of Sylvanas? I mean, maybe regular blood elves would not mind this company, but would Lor’themar be happy to have someone who is not only not going to be his subordinates but has legit reasons to be a competitor for a the leading role? Add to it the change in Jaina’s mind to move back to be a pro-peace figure, her wealth as potential leader of Kul’Tiras which could be used as a way to somewhat compensate the actions if Dalaran, plus the fact that maybe not everyone has someone if their families who died in Dalaran to begin with, or other strong motives to be cold to alliance
To me it looks like Lor’themar could see the presence of void elves as a recipe for disaster. And it very well could be. For the horde’s unity and it potential future.
I’m not taking it personally. I’m exasperated when I explain the context of void elves existing and not being anyone’s traitor, only to be met with what amounts to “lolno shut up traitor”.
More like an outgrowth of blizzard’s wider Light vs Void themes and Alleria’s story. I know you’re gesturing at the people who want high elves but that is something void elves are not and will never be.
Former Blizzard would never introduce a race so random just to give-in to certain vocal group, but alas.
Like handing blood elves to the Horde despite their history, or the whine when forsaken were put in Vanilla, tainting the noble Horde with Scourge! There are a lot of odd choices made.
All Umbric took from Dar’khan was a treasure map. The idea that his followers were a cult to his dark legacy is another fabrication.
Go figure WHO Blizzard is appealing to.
People who want void elves.
/sigh in moments like this when I am trying to choose my words carefully to not offend but it’s hard.
You can’t really be this tone-deaf and clueless to the whole blood elf story-arc? I am as blood elf main as it would get since the TBC launch, I loved their story since WCIII arc, and if Blizzard even tried implementing figures like Alleria, which -nobody cares-, especially as a blood elf, out of the blue, after going through so much with Kael since WCIII up to the Isle of Thunder with Lor’themar, I would quit.
Nobody, not a single actual blood elf cares or have reasons to care for alleria or any other generic fantasy mary sue deserter.Not to mention they are not a royalty like Sunstriders was.They don’t have a crap going on for any leading role.If anything they are deserters to their own people, many times.Blizzard really tried hard to reason Alleria’s visit to the Sunwell, but if they were actually true to their characters and were not pushing void elf implementation agena, someone like Lor’themar or Rommath wouldn’t allow Alleria’s visit in no matter what condition.It makes no sense.
But it’s Blizzard current writing, and I don’t even know what I am I still holding hope for lol.Now typing it loud, it sure all seems like BS…sudden interest lost.
It’s hard to want something that didn’t exist.
I don’t know why people are still pushing it.Just because blood elves pretty they can’t be horde coz horde ugly? Isn’t that so basic levels of grasping things.
I -loved- horde when forming them in WCIII.Especially with Thrall when he was at his prime then, with Rexxar and Cairne.It was amazing, I am glad blood elves got to be part of the horde.Never felt out of place all this years playing in it.
Horde and it’s foundation is the perfect setting, a faction made up of survivors with a new code of honor.What better survivor then Blood elves.
That has never been my position.
People in general seem to ruminate a lot of odd conspiratorial thinking as if there’s an agenda to destroy all that makes blood elves cool when in fact it’s just cold hard currency ruling the direction of the game.
An impassioned plea but all races of Azeroth are fierce survivors with the Alliance being the original, defined into being by struggling against the Horde. Meanwhile, the Horde’s narrative hasn’t been about survival for ages. Their role is more consistently that of an imperial power with expansionist designs foiled regularly by internal uprisings.
I am not really sure what do you mean by deserter. Didn’t she go as a part of the alliance during 2nd war beyond the dark portal to protect whoever stayed in Azeroth? That was before high elves exited the alliance, wasn’t it?
Well, to me it seems that you evaluate the story as a human being for whom 15 years of blood elf journey is a significant portion of your life. There should be plenty of BElves who had probably thousands of years, unimaginable by human standards time, to be next to Alleria, who was one of the best rangers among them ever. And who risked everything she had when she went through dark portal just to give a chance for a better future to those who stayed on Azeroth. Did this “better future” happened? Not really, but it’s not like every 2nd person you meet in the game has N’Zoth level ability to foresee the future outcomes.
Well, it’s not like Lor’themar has that much of authority if you look at the story from the perspective of void elves. I know it’s not too difficult to look just on one side of the story, but I am not sure that is the best way to understand and maybe even enjoy the lore of warcraft universe. Yes, not all of things in the game makes perfect sense, but still, some parts are nice, aren’t they?
Honestly, my hope is that they had bad enough reception of BfA, so now we could point out at how much higher the engagement with the game is once the dev team started to pay attention to the feedback, at least is some capacity, and suggest that maybe “it’s out story to tell” is not always the most optimal tool for a subscription-based game to achieve retention and recurring spendings from the players.
I am glad that you try. Maybe my words are blunt, but I think there some nice story bits in the game and having different opinions is not only good to understand different aspects of the lore better (and I am certainly far from being an expert), but it also could be a way to make a more thought through feedback for the devs. Assuming there is a way to suggest them some interesting potential ways for the story development, even if it’s about minor side-stories, and to have a more honest and open dialogues about what works and what does not.
Thanks for your time, gl hf.
It’s not your wording beint blunt, whenever I see takes and suggestions like yours, it really feels like you are not any invested in blood elf story but just thinking ‘‘what-if?’’ , and it’s hard to argue things with that mindset.
I am invested in blood elves lore, history and future, and I really don’t care what Alleria did at wherever.In order to make me actually care, I need to get invested.Like when I got invested while played alongside WCIII Kael blood elven arc or while played in Isle of Thunder alongside Lor’themar arc.Wish there was a lot more instances like those.Those are the actual narrative moments.
That’s ultimately what matters, as a player you bond with whatever narrative when playing the game itself.It’s how works, so normally I have zero empathy for Alleria since who is she? There is a said lore you are saying, but it amount to nothing, since I never even saw her once in game since 15 years, never saw she is doing anything for blood elves -in action-, therefore she means next to nothing, because that’s her in-game narrative so far.And now she is in Alliance, further dislike reason.I don’t care what outsourced material says, her ‘‘lore’’ so to speak, because it does not bring any emotion.Because game never bothered making her reletable to me, as a blood elf.Up until now, where she is a alliance.I don’t like this kind of approach.
It’s a huge mistake to tell the story in books, webcomics, and whatnot, but not in-game.This is why so many people can’t relate with what’s Slyvanas’s current agenda is, because we simply never got to see -anything- with her in game.It’s always ‘‘will be told in the books’’ ‘‘will be revealed’’ ‘‘morally gray stay in touch’’, but such things don’t bring player emotion, when you are expecting to see things unfold within the game, while playing it.
That is a good point. In some recent interviews I’ve heard from the latest warcraft novel writer that blizzard are now aware that the players do not like that the key story elements happen outside of the game, and it makes events to look like they have no context / reason / build up. So, in the future the dev team supposedly will try to move the relevant story parts out of the books / other media and show them in the game. Perhaps that is the first step toward, dare I say it, better world of warcraft?
I would really hope so, because I said what I said despite being aware of Alleria’s written lore.Since saying Allerica recklessly suffering in harsh outlandish lands while slaying countless, billions of mean demons in a book or a webcomic doesn’t really make the same effect on me while here my in-game character is actually escaping the dalaran sewers with Rommath in Purge of Dalaran in-game, or while surviving alongside Kael in WCIII in-game , or while helping the blood elves’ interests in Isle of Thunder with Lor’themar, all in-game.
I really hope what you say there would be the case, because this telling things outside of the actual game didn’t really work out so far.Well, We’ll see!
To be fair in Wowpedia it’s said that it was Umbric who chose to lead his followers south in the Ghostlands after the “banishment” of Rommath.
That pretty much makes me think the exile of the Void Elves was actually a self-exile. Rommath just wanted them nowhere near the Sunwell (and by extension, Quel’Danas I guess), but I guess they could still stay in Eversong or maybe even in Silvermoon. But it was Umbric who, in spite of that, brought himself and his followers in the dark regions of the Ghostlands to pursue more information about the Void. Also because he didn’t like the allegiance of the Blood Elves to the Horde in the first place.
But that, as I said, it’s a self-exile. If the Queen of England takes the decision (for whatever reason) that a person is not allowed to live in London but they can still live everywhere else in England, that’s not an exile. They are not exiled in another nation but they are still part of the Kingdom despite the restriction. So Umbric brought ruin with his own decision upon himself and his future people.
Can I just point out, that the majority of the Blood Elves who were dealing in these dark powers were primarily those of the Sunfury on Outland.
The Silvermoon populace were mentored in the ways of draining magic from living beings as well as some holding knowledge on fel magic and teaching it to some aspiring blood elf warlocks.
Astromancer Solarian and her band of apprentices were those Sunfury Blood Elves who were actively learning about the Void, but this is set in a time where the Blood Elves were still finding out how to deal with the loss of the Sunwell. Studying the Void was not seen as something that was going against their values, because at the end of the day - whatever values the blood elves held before the Scourge invasion, 90% of said values had changed…unless your Aethas Sunreaver.