Rework -> Your spec becomes overpowered

Am I the only one, who is tired of this pattern?

A spec gets reworked, and then all the meta-abusers reroll to that spec. This spec then turns out to be extremely broken and also turns out do more damage than everyone else. What a coincidence! This kind of hurts the integrity of the game and it punishes people, who are loyal to their class.

These are the raid statistics:

Demon Hunters and rogues are extremely overpowered. Windwalker monk, evokers, dks, warriors, etc. at the bottom. I think this is very boring and it’s not good that the fyrakk legendary later on will likely keep its wielders weaker than rogues and dhs currently.

Can we maybe just have reworks that improve quality in a genuine way without making it stronger? It also muddies the waters, if it’s too strong, because most people can’t distinguish between quality of gameplay and power, so your feedback is likely also going to be disingenuous too. I wish we can have a monk, dk, or warrior rework, because these specs have severe quality issues, but I don’t want blizzard to make them oberpowered, because I hate this meta-abuser-friendly design.

Raid statistics are also only half of the story:



How can you have such an enormous delta in PvP between the best and lowest performing specs, and how is it justifiable that the most OP pvp specs happen to be the strongest pve specs in some cases while some specs are useless in both?


Hmm so last season we get Ret pala rework and it was not this OP :smiley:
Assasination rouge rework is very good
I love playing around kingsbane it’s a good mini game on AOE where you do priority DMG and cleave everything down with spatter…
And BTW this is not easy to pull off so rogue rework is fine even if he is having higher numbers

Demon hunter on the other hands is little bit too much because
You can’t do 1,1mil AOE dmg and i’m at 500-600 k on bigger pulls in 20+ keys
something weird going on here

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Rogues arent that overpowered tbh. Yes assasination is good and outlaw tbh but they just need tuning. Demon hunters thats another story what suprises me is that everyone complains about havoc only wich they are really overpowered. Even after the announced nerfs they will still be OP. but what suprises me me the most is that NOONE IS COMPLAINING ABOUT VENGEANCE DH. if u say what is overpowered in DPS, UTILITY, SURVIVABILITY THIS TANK IS OVERPOWERED. no other tank is even considered this. Maybe protection paladin comes close but not really at the same time.

The day ret palas are top I will eat my hat.

u paladins dont need to cry really, your dmg is fine. Look at casters this patch only 2 outliers and not OP, boomkin - Demo lock. the rest is basicly dead. Elemental shaman at first on the PTR they were looking great untill blizzard nerfed the Tier set to hell.
Destruction lock really its a shame that this spec is bad. Affliction Lock was always a joke.
Fire mage looks decent but not there. Frost mage ok is solid.

You can’t be serious. At one point they had over 33% representation in PvP for all specs - that means there was on average more than one ret in every team.

Nothing has ever come close.

I mean don’t get me wrong, DH is definitely much too strong, but it’s nowhere near what ret was.

I was only talking about PVE numbers
I don’t really care what happens in PVP cause i do not play
i know ret was OP in pvp cause i did 1800 rating in solo shuffle most of the time i was the biggest hitter there…
I’m talking about PVE right now
When ret was reworked in season 2 we were not OP good but no OP
Now we are in season 3 assa is OP but it’s op in a good way because to pull it off you need to know how…so the nerf to assa kingsbane is weird to me
On the other hand HAVOC dps in pve is something that is weird to me
becasue you don’t neeed ot have Gear to do that
and you certainly don’t need to SETUP your dmg like assa
I’ve been playing with friend and he just press buttons we time 23 keys :smiley:

Was very broken also.

Not to mention the fact that they had insane defensives and could get away with practically anything.

But you weren’t.

You were having a go at how OP they are and how ret has never been this OP but got nerfed.

I don’t think making something hideously complicated but OP does the game any favours. All it does is serve as a honeytrap for newbies who then proceed to get overwhelmed, and it doesn’t add much gameplay anyway.

So you link a weird ranking where DH is number 4 and just slightly ahead of Warlocks/Shamans and your conclusion is that DH (or Rogue) is extremely overpowered?

Assa Rogue is kinda OP based on original warcraftlogs statistics, DH is fine. Other classes like Feral could need a buff.

Keep in mind that current DH playstyle (Momentum) forces ppl to ignore mechanics, resulting in higher dps than DH usually should have compared to other classes. With the incoming Momentum nerfs tomorrow that playstyle is probably dead (again and again and again) and DH will slide down in the statistics.

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There were several nerfs with Ret Pala after the rework though. We soon returned to being middle of the pack in raids etc.

PvP is where we caused most upset but in all the years I’ve been playing pala it’s always PvP that causes the most issues for me in PvE. They need better separate balancing.


Vengeance are cancer in pugs. They need a certain skill. Most of the time they jump in and pop like a fire cracker…

It’s so annoying that I dont invite them any longer.

Meta rollercoasting keeps the gameplay “fresh”.
They been doing this for almost 20 years and Blizz is far from the only one doing it.
Just have to enjoy rotating between being a potato and literal god every few months.
I recommend getting one of every class.

It’s been this way since at least S1. I had a DH tank in HoV back then who needed a major cooldown with each pull. On the third or fourth pull I was completely out of options. He jumped in, went splat immediately, started flaming me and quit. That class really does attract the worst people…

calm down XD

I play a DH rn. Last night on +22 everbloom, a BM did 1.6 milllion dps on first pull where my highest was 800k. Then on another same key same level demo warlock ended up doing 545k on same pull where i finished with 320k. Previous week, on +20 dht, i finished with 220k overall while the outlaw finished with 270k. I haven’t been able to match an arcane mage in any key on both single target, aoe or overall yet. But everyone wants to nerf DHs.

Please tell me and be honest, why would you pick my DH for any of your keys while an arcane mage brings %5 intellect boost, crowd control, mana food, time warp, range option, aoe shields and top dps to your group?

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I pull 1 mill DPS on first EB Pack, what are you on about?

Im suprised you didnt mention the fact beast mastery is stronger than marksmen on ST and AOE.

Even after 30% nerf btw…

Also, just in case y’all forgot or ignore it, ret got 4 consecutive nerfs after the initial rework, the first one was after only 3 days, not even a full reset.

Meanwhile, DH is due to receive their first real nerf tomorrow, and it will more than likely still be top dps across the board.

I couldn’t be less angry if I tried. I’m just arguing against your position.

I’m not defending DH so don’t misunderstand me - but the ret situation was so much worse and therefore so much more obvious.

This ret salt is pretty nice btw.

Remember the season 2 god comp?

Guardian druid: Big talent changes.

Holy Paladin: reworked

Mage: reworked

Aug: Completely new spec

Shadow Priest: Reworked

Season 1:
Ret paladin rework made it extremely overpowered and it almost completely killed pvp in the game

Season 3:

Havoc DH is extremely broken after the rework and people are getting free ranks for playing it, and in PvE it’s also by far the strongest spec in M+. Same for rogue, but less insane than havoc. In PvE it also hurts everyone else a lot, because this causes people in M+ to hard-reserve a spot for DH and Aug in the Composition.

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