Rework -> Your spec becomes overpowered

Definitely. It was outrageously stupid. I don’t disagree with the OP at all by the way. Nearly every time Blizzard overhauls a spec it comes out the other end completely busted.

I think the real problem here was Aug though. Just look at what they did to raiding as well. People were pulling in 18 Augs and killing mythic bosses in 6 seconds.

It’s just that fire mage goes really well with a lot of haste and mastery, and that’s exactly what Aug and SP was good at. Aug and SP had even higher representation even than mages, which was also way too high, primarily because SP was hocking it with the skips and high damage output.

Guardians were just plain stupid, not much to say there, and because enemy damage and healing are both quite high, an improved health pool and big shields are far better than after-the-fact healing, so Holy Pala popped off.

So it was a combination of busted overhauls and things that would be a good meta anyway. A perfect storm.

I ain’t really salty, the state of Ret after the rework destroyed Ranked PvP. The only thing I am slightly salty about is that I couldn’t play for the first few weeks of the rework, so I missed out on free rating lol.

Ret paladin deserved the nerf.

What I am saying is, a DH with 20 lower ilvl can currently do the same or higher damage as another spec with much better gear and/or tier-set. That is just blatantly overpowered tuning and it needs to be addressed. Ret got addressed pretty often and pretty fast ( and even then it was still arguably nerfed too slow and didn’t stop the rerollers from taking advantage) while DH was essentially left untouched for weeks, and even now, the nerfs are to a much less extent

Have you thought for a second that maybe, but just maybe, both of the players had superior skill?
And going after arcane, that is not a smart move. Arcane is good only if the pulls are made around his cds. Also, arcane is pretty much glass canon. As dh, you keep yourself up just with the leech (And I’ve seen this done multiple times). Meanwhile, out of ice block, I’m pretty much dead as arcane.

Also ranged this season is twice as hard. You have a lot of mobs and mechanics that only concern ranged (Everbloom with berserkers, DHT with the bats, some abilities in WM and I think the list can go on).

Regarding the 5% Int buff, damage wise, this also applies to DH with their debuff on mobs. So we are on par, the only difference being that the Intellect buff would help healers more.

I’ve played a lot of dungeons this season, and I’ve seen the difference between a good DH and an average DH. Same player, same dungeon, 2 different DHs around the same gear. One pulled 10k under me, one pulled 50k over me. My overall was almost the same, and the pulls were almost the same. And rn, I can go into top keys, and you won’t really see that all keys have arcane, but for sure you will see that all top keys have DH.


Okay, fair enough man :smiley:

This is because rets were far more OP than DH are. Both OP, yes, but ret was literally destroying the game taking over EVERYTHING while DH are the more garden variety super OP.

Yes and they clearly do it on purpose. Else I wouldn’t complain as much about it.

I have 2 theories:

  1. They believe that making a reworked spec op, makes it overpowered, and benefits the long term engagement of the spec. (Unlikely, but it’s probably what they get taught in their game design bootcamps, because Riot does the same)

  2. They make it OP, so everyone praises them for their good work, because people can’t distinguish between quality and power. Then they look better, and they won over the players, which give them very positive feedback.

I for one am not happy with my outlaw rogue.
Sure, it blows things up but I’m not enjoying the playstyle much, it feels clunkier or I just can’t get (consistently) in the flow.

Frankly, I care more for how it plays than the bigger numbers.


I’m currently 477 ilvl with my DH. On keys higher than 20; rogues, hunters, mages, warlocks, paladins, warriors sends my dps down above the tank. You are either playing on low keys where mobs die quickly where Dh shines due to our burst damage or higher keys with people who has no idea how to play their class and the key. Btw I kept close to other DHs whether Im on top or below them so I believe my dmg represents a moderate level. But you want to nerf 200.000 DHs because best 200 players in the world picked DH to play, go ahead and do it, be happy. The same mentality and justice will hit you tomorrow and keep repeating the same toxic loop that you think is a solution until you realize the problem is not the customers who picked to play the reworked class but the company who fails to deliver a stable game-play.
We are about to start +21 everbloom, my key, I asked the rogue who was better than me both gear and score wise “Why are you playing assasination on fortified week mate?” He answers “Its just +20 go go” We barely finished in-time where he ended up doing 180k overall, while an outlaw finished with 270k previous week on tyrannical on +20 dht with less gear. Now, lets nerf DH because he came to the dungeon with proper stat and talent set-up after watching both dungeon and DH guides to that dungeon. Really fair justice.

Ret was mainly OP in PvP, for PvE, it was performing very well, among the top specs in the 2 weeks of the initial rework (10.0.7), but you will notice that it is not severely outperforming compared to other top specs, the cluster is pretty close both in terms of max boundary and median observations.

If you now look at the rankings for the last 2 weeks of this raid tier (, you will see that not only is the top 6 specs comprised of 3 classes (3 rogue specs, 2 Hunter Specs and Havoc DH), they are performing significantly better compared to the other top specs like Demonology and Enhancement.

I am not trying to say that Ret wasn’t OP, but it was primarily in PvP, in PvE Ret was not severely outperforming other top specs the way that Rogues, DH and Hunter is currently.

We may see some of this change naturally with acquisition of the legendary.


People actually want to try something out when it gets reworked to be “good again”.

How dare they?

Dh playstyle is stil weird. Most of the players just saw it will be busted.

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Exactly. The DH gameplay is still as annoying, but it’s just overpowered and the developpers can pat themselves on the back for their accomplishment, even though it would fall apart, if the damage was lower. With Rogues the gameplay is so extremely bad and exhausting to play, that it’s still unpopular

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because the class is made for the worst people…
no-brain needed gameplay + it attracts the edgelords.

‘‘Oh no, people want to play thats what is broken so they can finally archive something in their life’’

fixed it for you.

Oh yeah, its totally no coincidence that suddenly everyone plays the same, pro-tip: They dont play it because the rework, they play it because its broken.

Generally the people claiming this are also the same to shove people like me, who have been playing Paladin for years, into the same box with people that switch their mains based on what is meta last season.

If I were you, I wouldn’t give so much about their “opinions”.

You cant be thinking that suddenly every 5 player remembers that they allways played the meta-spec, lol.

No, people go to play the op-specs because its easy, and they need this lil dopamin rush in their brain to feel good.

Even people that enjoy multiple classes usually have only a certain amount they are mainly drawn to.

And yes, I know this fairly well, because I play this game for years… and the fotm rerolling gets worse and worse.

But you can’t deny that despite there being players like you and me that dont’ main change, we had an explosion in the Ret Pala population after the rework.

And that happens with every class that ends up broken or overpowered in some way. Some people will always play what they perceive to be strong.

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It’s interesting in season of discovery now that nobody really knows what is going to be op throughout the tiers. People just play what they think is cool, and they discover the meta. Not have it handed on a silver plate. In retail right now, I already knew that DH+Rogue will be OP, and BM hunter was already very strong in ptr too. Maybe Blizzard should limit ptr testing more.

Same goes for this mobile game “warcraft rumble”. The meta there seems pretty much undiscovered, but not because it’s untested. It’s that Blizzard hides a lot of statistics I think

My entire goal on SoD was I want to play a Gnome and Warlock seemed the one I could manage out of the four class choices :dracthyr_hehe_animated:

My friend is a Warrior which is mostly his go to when we play Classic, neither of us care about what is powerful or strong.

The only one that has amused me so far is the nerf to mage healing because an 80% nerf is very big.

I don’t have anything against PTR testing but it is odd when they simply don’t respond and want to see how it works out on LIVE first. Back in Legion paladin was not performing well at one point, they had all the data, and still they ignored it. It took until it was on LIVE for a reasonable time before they made adjustments. We had two Rets on our raid team and it was funny seeing us go from lurking at the bottom of the meters to being competitive again.

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says the warlock

most people have done it probably in bfa i swapped to lock then dh and then in df season 2 i was basically evoker main. which i am not doing now cos aug is still a thing. its fine playing it when i choose too but when im forced to go aug over dev, hell no

my favourite class in classic