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10 Likes
I feel you.
Since I got 8 370 cloaks I stopped trying. I quit for a month and then returned to farm old raids. Since my guild died and pugs cant do heroic Uldir there is nothing worthwhile in BFA for me.
5 Likes
I hate it too.
Some rnd was ok⌠interesting. Grinding pet or mount drops⌠ok. Rnd on fighting mechanism ok. But its gotten way out of hand.
I sometimes laugh about it.
Think about the core element of this game; fighting, right? The rnd in it follows a bell curve. But nobody seems to realize that with all the math they do on best ârotationsâ, nobody holds into account how this rnd factor determines the outcome.
You may be hitting a dummy for half an hour and it will prolly be close to median.
But fights arent like that.
Consider player A, whoâs trinks and other procs at the start and crits a lot.
Consider player B, whoâs trinks and other procs at the end and crits on a heal he does when the fight is over.
How would that show in recount?
It would show player A does a lot better than player B.
While the reality is that A is lucky and B has bad luck.
This has always intrigued me. And moreover, its intrigued me that nobody seems to realize this.
And even worse⌠you can extrapolate this directly to real life.
Soldier A switching positions with soldier B. B gets headshot and soldier A thinks its his luck or doing that made him survive.
Soldier C sees it happening and does not switch position at a later date, when soldier A again asks to switch. But elas, soldier C gets headshot none the less.
Its all about luck⌠and bad luck.
And so few seem to realize this.
5 Likes
The RNG gear slot machine is so damn annoying, I know what you mean. I stopped gearing my main due to it.
2 Likes
Well im not making an effort really either. I lvl em all to 120 and gear em to 120, do warfronts and thats about it.
Apart from that i make gold. And ill start doing old content soon. As the gold making dries up. Second year of bfa i may make an attempt, but as this upscaling every few months is a continuous and repetative thing now⌠whats the use? I like the old way⌠where you get your gear and then wear that for a year and be op. Gives you time to do things you actually like
Im not going to run after a carrot B moves every 2 months. HECK no.
They are destroying their gameâŚ
how stupid can you be?
3 Likes
Iâm not really sure what the RNG issue is specifically.
To me it just feels as if WoW is overall more rewarding these days, because there are more gameplay activities you can do, and therefore more chances of loot.
But as far as luck and chance goes, I recall doing BWL in Vanilla from the day it opened to the day before TBC was released, and my guild didnât get a single Rejuvenating Gem â the one trinket that I (as a healer) really wanted.
Likewise, I remember how the main tank in my guild wanted to get QuelâSerrar, so we put together a 5man group and intended to just farm Dire Maul like crazy until the book dropped.
Lo and behold, the damn book dropped after a few kills!
Luck and chance and âRNGâ has always been a staple of WoW. Perhaps itâs more the player mentality that has changed, and people now expect more linearity between effort and reward with less luck involed? Because the luck element has always been there.
Well to be fair I donât mind RNG, boss kills drop random items. some lootboxes from quests etc. rewarding random pieces of gear. In expansions before Legion however these sort of elements were almost always working hand in hand with a system that makes you able to âoffsetâ the poor RNG if you were unlucky.
In Classic you had professions who werenât too far behind. Up to at least BWL you could off-set poor loot drops with crafted gear to a certain extent. However beyond that point you didnât really have much else to gear in at all except the raids themselves and to some degree PvP.
In Burning Crusade the professions still had merit to a very high extend. Exalted reputation rewards were decent enought. But the most interesting addition to this expansion were the âheroic tokensâ later known as Justice tokens. These systems sort of worked in tandem up to at least the starting points of first raids and were later on during the expansion upgraded to help facilitate people into a bit higher content.
In WotLK all those systems in BC were pretty much carried over in a well mannered system. However in this expansion you also had Valor Badges and Triumph badges for PvP making the gearing feeling even more rewarding.
This also were true in Cataclysm, altho professions had been a bit more shafted especially a bit further on into the expansion. Then badges also turned into the point system, but essencially fullfilling the same function. This were kept into Mists of Pandaria.
They removed justice in Warlords but the Apexis vendors, Crafted gears etc. were sort of still âacomplishingâ the same goals.
In legion we lost most vendors in a freak accident, however the introduction of mythic+, artifacts and AP. Made the content feel fresh and people could farm pretty much everything in dungeons. Itâs similar to how it looks now, just that the legion artifacts were fun and any AP you recieved felt âokâ. If we look away from the legendary system, RNG at these stages were for the most part acceptable. Since there were no set items in the first raid, mythic+ could be farmed with great efficiency.
Later on they added in the vendors for legendaries, shard vendors and then those wierd argonite vendors⌠people were pretty much happy with how legion played out overall. With the introduction of class sets in Nighthold raiders had some unique flavor etc.
In BfA, well we still have the RNG but professions are now; Pretty much Worthless(except one or two pieces which are BoP), Reputation rewards are also worthless unless you got them early on.
Mythic+ feels less rewarding, since you get equal or better gear doing other stuff, which to be fair are awfully linear and boring solo content. I know warfronts a raid style gameplay, but since when did anyone ever work as a team in them, heck people just wait around for other people to gather resources most of the time. The main issue here are that WQâs, Warfronts and Assualts⌠reward Azerite gear which mythic+ âdo notâ.
The introduction of the Azerite vendor have made it a bit better with the azerite gear. However for people who run around in 385~ ilvl they still feel compelled to do warfronts, assualts and WQâs even if their worthless. Just so they eventually can gather residuum to buy gear they might want/need since a weekly high mythic+ is not enought.
If these boxes then reward anything else then a Azerite piece they feel slapped in the face everytime. Or in this case; Anything can be a upgrade and they keep giving him bracers all the time.
If we were still in legion people might had feel rewarded enought by the AP present during these activities. However⌠the necklace are really boring and grindy and the only thing you really do are unlocking the same traits just at a higher ilvl in a ongoing continious cycle. Once you also reached the âsoft capâ the AP go from feeling frustrating to worthless.
As it looks now at least Blizzard have given into some of the core issues of BfA. However changing systems they spent months to build up will take time. I donât blame blizzard if the initially thought âwhat a great system we haveâ because yes⌠Azerite, warfronts, expeditions, assualts etc. all potentially good systems but their half baked.
In 8.2 BfA might get more funny since they acctually have a whole patch cycle to handle the concerns they have promised to fix. But that will be 6~ months or even more away. Which might be a bit to late for many players. Personally Iâm pretty content for now and look forward to the next season and raid.
That makes the issue even more confusing to me. I mean, the acquisition of Residumm is not RNG at all. It is a textbook case of a linear progression grind. You put in effort and time, and the more you put in, the more Residuum you ultimately end up with. Thatâs the direct opposite of RNG.
Even the way the Azerite Armor is presented on the vendor has zero RNG involved.
Thereâs way too much arm-waving going on here. I mean, if the concern if âRNG wow slot machineâ, then I kind of feel as if there are some aspects of BfA that needs some explanation.
Warfronts.
Reputations.
Titan Residuum.
Professions.
Conquest items.
These systems have zero RNG involved.
Beyond that there are some systems which involve zero RNG in acquisition, but which have RNG in terms of what you get.
The 370 item from first Warfront.
Weekly PvP Cache.
Weekly PvE Cache.
Like, that stuff isnât really RNG, because you know if you do your Warfront, then you get a 370 item. And if you do your weekly Mythic+ dungeon, then you get your weekly Cache. Likewise for PvP.
So whereâs this crazy RNG slot machine stuff? I mean, luck and chance in regards to what loot drops from a boss has always existed in WoW. So whatâs so different in BfA? 
the OP and first reply already stated they keep getting the same item slot for numerous sources of activity.
while the activity is not rng as such, the reward that ends up in our bags is.
the reward from these is all random. ok you get a reward, but what is it? and will it be any good? and while you can see the item you will get in conquest, after the first week or two, it might always be useless cause you cant choose the item you want. âthis week reward is ilvl 370 gloves? i already have ilvl400 gloves, but ilvl320 legs. a conquest reward of ilvl 370 legs would be more usefulâ
and rng hits us even more if you start talking about transmog, mounts and pets.
i âalmostâ cant wait for Legion raids to be legacy, and see boss after boss drop 5-7 items made up of trinkets, rings, neck and relics beyond sight. or 5 of the exact same relic from one boss! absolute c**p, and proof that the rng system is insane.
also, for current content, just look at island expeditions. even post ânerfâ.
THIS!!! for the love of above, why cant more people not see this!! and those trolling it, cant you see its hurting the game?
and this blizzard/activision.
signed and agreed.
1 Like
For the guys saying there always was rnd:
Yes. Although i have to say i only started in LK.
I guess it is not so much that rnd increased, but that a lot of things changed, which results in our expectations wrt to this. There is no clear course it seems of what they intend with the game. I wrote that 8 years ago actually, as cata started (my first shocking experience of an expansion). They have no vision.
And this results in all sorts of ad hoc decisions that hurt their own game. (and income). Numerous times i wrote here and in suggestions that they undermine their own game when they remove content, even achies. It is not noticed. Instead they hold out that carrot. Well, ppl will fall for that, but to quote the famous philosopher Marley: You can fool some ppl sometime, but you cant fool all the people all the time.
It seems that time has come.
The problem may not be rnd, but the continuous steering us in directions we do not want.
When i started⌠i liked the dgs. So i took my time to get to top lvl and from then on did nothing but hcs. I wasnt super geared, but good enough to do those hcs without a problem. And that was fine for me. I could have happily continued doing that for another 2 years. Because i LIKED doing it.
And that is the crux here.
We want to do content we LIKE. And a whole lot of ppl seem to be doing things now they dont like. I know i am. I do it bc i am addicted and use wow as an escape from real life, but i call it wowork.
As cata hit and i recovered from the shock and rape of all my toons, i started doing cata dgs. That was another shock, bc they were a lot harder.
Eventually i learned tactics, got some gear and did well.
I then branched out to raids. I had done a few in LK. They werent too hard. The guild i was in wanted to do more raids and my then main, a hunter got the most difficult job to do and failed. We wiped numerous times and i had no fun at all. So i gave up on that. Wasnt my thing.
I then went to do bgs. I liked that, so did nothing else for the remainder of cata. Gearing was easy and linear. All my chars were well geared with full pvp (from honor point i think?.. 378 gear?).
The point of all this is that you need gear for the content you like to do.
Now i dont do content, but my chars get the gear. It is in a way too easy to gear and bc it is too easy and therefor boring, you start to complain. Darn, again a 370 wep, while i have that 4 times. So i did the stupid warfront for nothing⌠waste of half an hour.
The point is⌠Warfronts are no fun at all.
Island expeditions are no fun at all.
etc
The problem may not be so much that there is more rnd, but that we do that boring content bc we think we need that gear, while we hate doing it.
Dunno if this makes sense to you guys. Lemme know ;]
1 Like
Look I am so sick of this RNG nonsense.
Here is just my recent experiences.
Every since warfronts became available iâve been running them on 3 toons religiously. Even camping the Frightened Kodo spawns etc. Last night my wife and I went and did Darkshore as per the norm and guess what, her 5th mount dropped, and she only plays one toon. I have had only 1 single mount drop in total on all three my toons since the start of warfronts. But that was not all, she got 385 gear at the boss, a pet and a toy whilst I got nothing but two pieces of 340 gear and a toy after completing two toons. 3 items in total on 2 toons whilst one player gets double that for doing less.
Iâve collected closed to 1 Mil Azerite in Island Expeditions and not even seen one mount drop or collected 100 dubloons or collected 50% of the pets. Yet my wife has breached the 100 dubloon mark with less than 500k azerite not to mention the pets she collected.
I probably spend 50% more time in game than my wife yet she receives way more loot and drops. Im sick of hearing about luck and bad luck protection and all the other crap excuses.
How in anyoneâs right mind does this not sound broken?
1 Like
LOL.
I know how you feel.
I have a sister that plays wow aswell. I play religiously, to use your words. She plays a lot less.
I do WFâs with all my top lvls, now at 22 (had 29 in legion, still lvling the rest). She does it with 3 now.
And its always like this:
I got a mount there.
Oh, gratz! On which npc?
Npc-name. It drops easily i think, bc i got it the first try.
I go with all top lvl. Nothing. So i check wowhead and see it has a chance of 1/100, 1/200, or 1/1000. etc.
By now, i already know that when she says âI got a mount there and it probably drops easy bc i only did that two timesâ; i immediately check wowhead and yes, ofc, same thing again.
She complains she still hasnt gotten slabhide from stonecore, bc she has been harvesting it for 2 weeks with one char.
Now i cant say i have really bad luck. Its a bit below par id say, on average. But sheâŚ
Man⌠im not the jealous type and i can laugh about it, butâŚ
you know.
1 Like
Before I quit my tank was simply not improving. Why?
Not because I didnât do all the high ilvl quests, but because somehow I got dps gear only (even trinkets) when prot loot spec is on.
So I started doing those quests less and less. Whatâs the point? Couldnât get anywhere by trying, so I might as well not try.
Yes, I can still post on the forums while I donât have gametime. I guess thatâs new. If it was announced I missed it.
Except itâs not really linear no? The Residuum you get at the start of the week are based upon effort made: Higher mythic+ More residuum. After this any extra residuum you get are bound to the amounts of Azerite drops you get, which are very random especially from; warfronts and Assualts. The amount differs greatly between people putting in the exact same effort. Iâd buy this argument if residuum were part of the end rewards or killing bosses.
Example:
Complete first warfront +15, Complete Assualt +10, Killing Normal raid bosses +2 and heroic raid bosses +5 etc.
Then also raids, mythic0âs, world bosses etc. The fact that residuum even scraps from gear dropped in these activities cause a ripple effect. What reason do anyone have to trade azerite items they donât need to others now? Trading away any higher ilvl piece are effectively delay your own progress now.
1 Like
I think thatâs a little hyperbole. If you do a Warfront, then you have a 30% chance of getting an Azerite Armor piece (3 out of 9 items). Within the context of WoW, a 30% chance to get what you want is definitely not crazy RNG. Thatâs a fairly reliable droprate that enables you to actually farm it if youâre willing to put in the time and effort.
So yes, I would say thereâs a very strong linearity between the time and effort you put into farming Titan Risiduum, and the amount you end up with.
Itâs a harsher grind than Azerite Power, but itâs reliable in the same way â you can brute-force your way through it, RNG or not.
Your not calculating properly since itâs 30% for one attempt, but here were talking about a string of events and first at about the 20th attempt the probability of seeing a item at least once finally comes close to 100%.
Which means there are some unfortunate people that may see one Azerite piece drop doing these activities 20 times, then a few lucky others who will recieve this drop everytime. Thatâs a difference between; 12 - 240 residuum. Which whould average 120~ or so one might think. But tell that to the unlucky guy who only get 12 residuum doing the same effort as the 240 guy.
And given the nature of things; You canât farm these things, you get one try per 24 hour cycle for Assualt, one try per boss a week, one try per Warfront like every 2-2,5 weeks.
2 Likes
If thatâs considered an issue, then the RNG in WoW will always be seen as a problem unless everything in the game litterally has a 100% chance to drop.
I guess we agree to disagree on this. I donât see it as an issue if something has a 30% drop chance. But thatâs just me.
No you can do the Warfronts as many times as you want (whilst theyâre up). You get a 340 item each time, and sometimes itâs a piece of Azerite Armor.
My issue is not RNG it is obtaining supposedly higher level gear that has worse stats than your lower level gear or obtaining gear that does not pertain to your particular specialization.
An example of the first instance is someone in my guild who obtained a level 370 ring that had worse stats than their 340 ring and my obtaining a 370 weapon that was for arms warrior and not protection.
The difference in Ilvl is a factor to concider no? 340âs = âoneâ Residuum, with the same probability as the former being your over simplified 30%, it requires 12x the effort getting the same returns.
I never said I disslike RNG, itâs always been a part of the game. However previous expansions always had means to counter RNG, be it by points or badges. The fact that you have a goal at the end always makes RNG more bareable and itâs kind of mandatory in games like this.
The major issue now however are; They have placed vendors in the game which are RNG dependant;
Residuum vendor = Huge variable from week to week in how much resources your able to farm efficiently.
If there were a limiter to how much you could recieve or miss every given week; It whould be a great system. But the difference between; Lucky players and unfortunate players are currently so high itâs infuriating.
I can take myself as a example; my priest have 713 residuum, My shaman have 914 residuum stockpiled going into the next season. My shaman just do a +10 every week, My priest always tend to be at around +12âs-14âs aswell as I do Mythic raids on him increasing his chances and linear progression âor effortâ. Since i always follow up each activity and do the same emissaries on both chars, My priest whould come out ahead no? Heâs 200+ behind.
1 Like
Professions is one of the worst RNG in current WoW. Itâs hardly OK to make BoE stats RNG, but BoP with lots of rare mats and non-refundable ExpulsomâŚ
Yeah, I was making 385 gloves, zero RNG you say? Right.
3 re-crafts till I finally got almost the stats I wanted, but at least they were 4% better than my 370. HUGE amount of bracers->scrap waste of time, that doesnât feel like crafting at all. And 395 lucky Titanforge the very next day from the first random BG box. So all that crafting was for nothing - RNG crafting + RNG tf = just a waste of time and disappointment because of it. And yes, it would be a lot better if profession BoP werenât RNG, at least I wouldnât wasted some much time and gold.
Titan Residuum - 385 is not RNG, but why lower are RNG boxes again⌠So if you want to try to gear up an alt with M+ - itâs have more fun with RNG again.
Warfronts - RNG box reward, how is it zero RNG?
Conquest - yes, not RNG when you fill the bar once a week, then RNG PvP box, and itâs not like you can work towards something you might need if itâs not a current week full-bar reward.
That is the biggest problem with amount of RNG current WoW has.
Yes, game throw rewards at you in huge quantities, epic is just a common trash item quality right now - because with this amount of RNG rewards the only thing that matters is - is it useful or not? 9/10 times for me itâs not, and because of it the whole systems gives me more disappointment or meh-feeling. And when it finally gives me something useful - it doesnât feel exiting after all meh before, it feel âughh⌠finalyâ.
RNG of so many procs when I play (out of my control completely) + RNG of professions + RNG boxes of loot + regular RNG of drops = 90% of the game is RNG. Itâs not exciting or satisfying - itâs just a systems that sets itself up for more disappointment that enjoyment.
If I remember correctly, previously in WoW it was vastly different - some RNG of procs, that were never more important that things player can control, + regular RNG of Boss drops + currencies that allowed to set a goal, work towards it and have enjoyment of achieving it = system that has enough RNG to give excitement when it works, and enough non-RNG to give satisfaction of working towards something.
That is fundamentally different from what WoW has now, and using anything like âWoW always had RNGâ as an excuse for current system - just wrong.
Yes, we are getting more rewards now because there are more different types of content. But it doesnât mean that because of it we need so much RNG.
Add Titanforging (instead of upgrading items with professions) to all that RNG + not working loot spec + all that gear is going to be no longer relevant when next season starts = casino with hamsters in wheels chasing meaningless carrots.