Braincells
And here what a good rogue is capable of in group pvp enviroments:
https://youtu.be/I-kYglKZ1f8
It’s not SoD, I wrote above, show me it in SoD!
It is important because:
- Warlock are much more tankier and metamoprh abilities are just OP
- Druids deal greatly more spell damage and are tankier in bear
- Paladins do more damage as well
- Melee hunters and their pet are just OP
- Priest with dispression is just almost unkillable
- Mages get heal and 2 more powerful AoE abilities
- etc…
Rogues get what? 2 blinks, one is basically sinister strike with blink (replaces mutilate, takes your out of stealth making ambush impossible) other does not deal damage.
So you end up with mutilate + shadowstep + between eyes.
Envenom does solid damage (up to 1100 crits) when there are 5 stacks of poison and 5 combopoints but you cant have envenom and between eyes at the same time and also it’s hard in pvp to get that much poison stacks and combopoints if you want as well to stun or bleed your target.
You get rolling with the punches and shuriken toss which are most useless for PvP.
Alrighty, here is my video where I yet not had shadowstep rune (did it only yesterday at night) watch?v=t0yczfH5LNY and take also into account that I play rogue first time in my life.
this was just for the others that told rogues suck in grouped pvp in classic already. This is just fo those guys.
The streamer is for you, when he does pvp.
Rogue is as op in SoD as may other things are too currently. It was op already in original classic
This thread was a funny read. Next up on the nerf bat is muti rogues, melee hunters and spriests for sure.
Do t want to sat it buts it’s a must…it’s a skill issue dude. You have plenty abilities in ur tool kit to be able to fight and beat anything especially now that boomie is nerfed.
Sp should be the next nerf imo.
So What do you want to nerf with rogues? Mutilate? We got almost no PVE runes. 0 this phase for dps. Almost forced to go dagger specc. And still on 7 place on dps for PVE. Only way A rogue can stunlock you from 100-0 is with thistle tee. 5 min cooldown and costs around 50silver to 1 gold. How many ppl is that in an STV event?
Now Lets talk about rank 5 trinket, What will rogues do then? Since almost all our bis weapons Apply dot on hit?
Without the mutilate you wouldnt had seen any rogues in raid. We bring nothing Else apart from damage and Even with the «broken» mutilate we are prob the worst dps class atm.
So if you remove the 20 energy give rogues cloak of shadows so we atleast can do something in pvp.
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Yeah, dispersion and SW: Death are OP runes for PVP, considering fear, bubble, heal, chance to stun. I’ve seen a lvl 34 priest destroy a 39 feral, and only 1 spell resisted. SWD hit that feral for 700 dmg into a 5-level higher target! You know what crit can rogue do to a 5-level higher target? He is barely able to hit it with melee attacks!
Yes, there are plenty of abilities for 1v1 maybe 1v2 (in some cases), but all that is usable only if you don’t get dotted, flared, feared, or charged from behind by someone else.
And since SoD was introduced almost every class has some DoT or AoE that prevents rogues from fighting in a 1v2 or more matchups, because they make reentering stealth impossible and rogues have 5 min cooldown on that ability. In an average battleground, it’s usable only once or twice. Not talk about combat rogues adrenaline rush: 5min, Tea: 5min, Vanish 5min, Sprint: 3.5min with talent…
Let’s say someone roots me, I use sprint to free myself, then what? Get another root or stun from someone else. Well then I have vanish, let’s use vanish, oh no, I have Agony, living flame, living bomb, moon fire, rend on me! I just spent another 5 minutes cooldown that did not gave me any advantage.
So stop writing about the toolkits and 1v1 already…
Once I shadow-stepped to help my friend and got caught in a living flame explosion instantly revealing me and destroying my combo.
As a rogue doing mostly PvE, I will somehow disagree, with my guild when we went BFD I was almost always in the top 5 DPS and did not have full bis while others had. Even in battle for Ashenvale considering the boss charges and goes out of range I was able to stay in top 7 out of 40 people.
The only instance when others were in top DPS was when the boss did not support venom or some AoE was going on.
Let’s give priest bubble and fear 5 min cooldown. Same for polymorph, same for blink, same for entangling roots. Let’s then talk about toolkits 
This is however the strenght of your class, to be able to choose your oppnents. If you want to have a team behind you and take people in a group, a Warrior is much more suited. People left behind, sickly gassels, quick ins on low health people, thats the targets.
Play your strenghts!
I do mostly pve , orange parses phase 1. You wont be top 3 in gnome. I will tell you that. Bleed/Poisons dont do full damage. And since we have to go muti couse of weapon options you dont Get adrenaline rush.
One handers are contested by hunters/pala/warriors/ so gl getting that setup going. And as normal boss mechanics Almost Always Favor ranged.
Just do the best out of it , and Lets hope we Get some pve runes next phase
Yeah, that’s good advice, and agree with you mostly, it’s just almost impossible in STV even with a group, sometimes doable if well coordinated but extremely hard and this is my point. Making it very not enjoyable to get items that other classes can get easily.
Look at mages (flame, bomb on 6 targets ticking, arcane blast for 1k), and druids (starsurge, nerfed to 800 crit, but still strong in PVP), priests (sw:d 700+ crit, dispersion 90% dmg reduction,…)… they were able to farm hundreds of blood coins just because they could finish opponents from the safe range with huge damage abilities and had some crowd control (fear) or escape travel form/cat stealth and run away, can blink away,… that have less than a minute cooldown compared to rogues 5 minutes.
About the class strengths:
- Shamans were never good tanks(in classic at least), but now they are.
- Mages were never healers now they are. They have been good in AoE, now they are even better in AoE.
- Warlocks never were tanks (maybe in later patches some weaker off-tanks), but now they are.
- Hunters never were this strong, now they are.
Rogues were rogues, now they are still rogues but with shadow step
Get it? Almost every class got a fun update with runes that allow them to compete in current content.
SoD was never meant to be a regular classic, if warlocks can tank, mages can heal, why cant rogues or warriors be more sustainable in group PvP or in AoE so even if we die we deal some nice AoE damage ?
With the toolkit casters have only chance to even be on the same playing field is to Get cloak of shadows. Sad but its just facts. The way it is now 1 dot and you useless. Worst thing is that 1-2 dots alone Get you for 70-80 % of your hp! Only way to survive is to run if you dont Get an opener
2 Likes
exactly! Thank you, someone who understands
Thats the case for most classes. Its a spectrum of bad > worse, a huge zerg fest that few survive (especially if they tactics is just running out and fight as close to GY as possible compared to guerilla warfare - groups fighting and stray people)
Yeah, but they are fighting each other aswell, are they not? A Mages range does little vs a Shadow Priest or Druid, so they are in a similar boat apart from always visible. They, like you, dont run into 1 on 1 fights, so the snares/stuns/escapes they have is straight into a new group coming for them.
Apart from that little fact that Rogue became Tanks? Not spelltanks, but no longer glasscannons vs melee either.
This is subjective. You have Quick Strike, Shadowstep, Ranged Kidney Shot, Ranged Slow, Tankier Melee. What would be a “good rune” for Rogues according to you, flying?
Becuase you cant have it all. Your biggest advantages are not in a zerg enviorment, but you can escape and avoid in a way no other class can, and pick you battles. A Mage or Warlock is a sitting duck for everybody else where ever they are - right?
Try STV from any other class. You might get a few extra casts in as range, but sooner than later you’ll get overrunned. For Rogues going out of stealth, group content with endless enemies simply is not what the class is built around.
Nah, not currently. Wasting 2-3 runes plus combo points for 20% dr without heals is not worth. Maybe in p3!
CoS, hehe. Hook from outlaw would be nice. Or just removing gcd from step would also help a lot. Or even changing shadowstrike’s rune placement to chest, while slaughter to hands.
Actually a bit embarrassing. Driving a Ferrari but hasnt found the gear box yet
2 Likes
Cloak of shadows. Instead of rolling with the punches.
Yes, rogues can kind of tank, PvE, as you mentioned it’s a new play style and it’s only effective in 1-2 target tanking, due to combo points, redirect somehow helps for tanking 2 but can’t hold agro on more than 4 npcs.
Let’s break it down, who can rogue tank/sustain for a little bit during PvP fight.
Tanking spec/rune has little use against 4 major spell-cast nukers, that’s a fact and we already discussed how useless vanish against spell-casters during battleground.
Little use against hunter, which has an arsenal of “please don’t come close to me” toolkit:
- Incredible attack range
- Arrows cannot be dodged or parried
- Pet stun and pet lightning bolt every about 2 sec for 200+ damage
- Can shoot traps (damaging, slowing and stunning ones)
- Can slow with sting
- Can daze
- Can wingclip
- Has pretty high dodge + parry rating
- Can flare if he feels vulnerable
- Can fake death to cancel targeting prevent quick use of shadow step, because pressing tab will target his pet, pressing again might target another player, so you need to give up camera movement just to click on the hunter. Meanwhile he is already out of range and kiting you to death.
Which is honestly bigger than rogues toolkit to get to the target.
Rogue can tank in PvP against another rogue and maybe a feral druid, however feral can just one press a button and become a tank or melee dps, rogues need rune change and somehow talent change for extra parry vs extra “adrenaline rush” with 5 min cooldown.
Would say warrior but if rogue parries with him or dodges, he gets overpowered and destroyed, rogue needs his space from warrior.
Shaman? Maybe can tank it however shaman has it’s own arsenal of instant spell abilities that can cause issue if he parries the kidney shot (below described why not between eyes that cannot be parried/dodged, only missed)
So rogue can effectively tank 2 classes? If I spec into additional parry chance, I lose other important PvP and DPS talents, at least on lvl 40.
Conclusion:
- Rogue can tank 2 classes in PvP but with a HUGE TRADE OFF in PvP because:
— in order for chest rune to work (-20% dmg reduction + 10% parry), rogue needs to use blade dance rune that replaces: between eyes/envenom, so he is stuck with closeup kidney shot that can be parried, unlike between eyes that can be only missed.
— Chest run replaces deadly brew, less damage just to be tankier against 2 classes.
Runes of shaman, warlock, druid, priest, and hunter are as effective in PvP as they are in PvE.
So again how are rogues runes competitive compared to other classes?
You’re for sure trolling. 