Rogue is unplayable in PvP

Clearly you are not as well geared as you claim to be, having 1600 health as a lvl 40 leather wearer is laughable, a cloth class with decent pvp gear (not every slot has stam) has the over 1600 hp.

Suggest for you to watch a streamer like Pshero, he also plays mutilate.

I prioritize ap+agi+str over stamina.

I have all the pvp gear available for lvl 38 (except the epic ones) and others are from lvl 40+ quests, some from gnomergan, a dagger from Blood Moon, etc.

I can burst a lvl 40 npc down with 250-400 dps (once I pulled off 480 dps) frontal attack with parry/dodge, considering I have 22% crit chance, 5% increased hit chance from talents, and 420AP.

In gnomergan considerably high armor npcs, I was able to outperform a feral kitty with nearly 800 AP who did 173dps, I did about 54 dps more (227) on boss, and only melee hunter outperformed me with 328dps (that’s really broken).

I was dueling my guild mate, encha shammy, he had no chance, He was gone in 3 mutilates.

Tried it on my demo warlock friend in metamorph, well let’s say I dealt negative amount of damage to him. He just life steal and spam searing pain.

If someone somehow does miss/dodge my attacks and survives my initial burst, and manages to DoT me, I am a goner, can’t vanish, run. In a non-1v1 fight, it’s not possible to avoid getting DoTs because almost all classes have some kind of ability preventing going stealth, making it impossible to vanish and reset the fight.

This is why a spell, like cloak of shadows, is crucial in SoD as other classes got really pushed forward. OFC with some reasonable cooldown like 3 minutes or so, so rogues cannot just rampage after every kill.

Every BG I go the kb/d stats are dominated by:

  • priests: 23/1 sniping with SWD
  • melee hunters: similar numbers, seen my fellow teammate destroy a warrior and paladin with raptor strike while i got there.
  • hooman mages/rogues/priests: similar numbers, the bfd ring+racial is so broken to detect rogues incoming.

While I am in stealth defending the base, I get ambushed by other hooman rogues or night elf druids, without seeing them coming.

If a hunter sends his pet on me before I manage to press stealth, the pet just comes after me revealing me by damage. Just in case I have a few BG recordings for this.

Now tell me that’s not broken.

Sap, blind, gouge gets canceled by damage, guess what applies deadly poison on target? Deadly Brew and it is one crucial damaging ability. I could go just a flash wound but that would hurt my burst, and help me lesser the melee crit chance into me, but nothing more.

here is my average BG watch?v=A-haTcw-cPo

i hate to say this but you should stick to pve. i understrand your frustration and i agree with some things here and there but after watching the video… you really arent playing rogue how it can be played… maybe try playing shadowpriest or a paladin? :stuck_out_tongue:

3 Likes

Rogue is by far the best melees in the game. If you cant see that, you need to watch people like Perplexity on YouTube and learn from them.

Ofc Im disregarding the abomination that is melee hunter. Hopefully it gets nerfed to hell.

  1. You WALK into a already exploded frost trap for some strange reason.
  2. You are mounted riding into a teamfight, getting feared.
  3. You are caught by Demo Roar in stealth
  4. You Shadowstep 5 yards to a priest standing next to you for some reason
  5. You pop Evasion when Druid isnt even hitting you - you still activate Evasion for some reason and vanish with a FF on you. Then you do everything but Expose Armor on him, while complaining that he’s tanky.
  6. You attack a bear, again, even tho you could attack litteraly anything that isnt in a form made >to counter melee<.
  7. You have Hunters Mark on you - he can see you, has nothing with FLARE to do.

I cant finish this video. You dont seem to know how basic stealth mechanics work and you are here crying about how your class is bad? After seeing that video, I’ll be nice and just say that you have a whole lot of improvement to do before even tapping in on the class potential. Try something easier and perhaps more straight on!

5 Likes

Thats phase one m8, the armor is killings us in gnome

Uhm, yes? 10 allies behind me, mostly humans with greatly improved stealth detection. Also as a first-time rogue player, I did not know that a non-damaging frost trap can reveal me if slowing totem cannot.

Well yes, it was 5v1 why waste time sneaking in stealth?

I don’t remember, but weren’t there humans nearby? If I sneak up on a human, or into group of humans, they can see me coming, and even more when having bfd ring for improved stealth detection.

It’s not the first time humans walking around me more than 5 yards and stunning me out of nothing.

Before he manages to charge and stun me, called thinking ahead. He can charge stun, and also stun. druid version of a shorter stunlock.

Tried that already multiple times, but it was not very effective.

Yes, again I won’t charge into 10 people. Also, each time I try to ambush healers/mages at the back, their team just starts to focus on me.

So logically i can:

  • a) do nothing
  • b) try to kill bear that is the further away player from enemy team and hope that we have a healer who will heal me during fight.

Well easier said than done, hunters have so high range for that crap that if I want to avoid it and I have to be stealthy almost all the time making it so slow to get from A to B and then into fight to help others that I am useless by then.

They can mark me from halfway across the BG! (at least in WSG)

In WSG hunters mark me with it when I respawn on GY! They can send pets up on non-walkable hills! Or I jump down from GY to go closer to middle and they


All my life I played shadow priest, paladin, druid, hunter… played probably everything except rogues and shamans, so I decided to try rogue.

In BG I cannot avoid human racial, people with rings. Shadowstep has global cooldown, so if I jump on them with it, they instantly use fear in that small window of opportunity, if I try to sneak up, they just see me.


All classes got OP nukes, OP DoTs, yet rogues still dont have the cloak of shadows to deal with the occasional 3min CD dispel.

1 Like

In Gnomergan with the guild I was 2. in dps.

Gnomer averages from the boss fights

  1. melee hunter: 260 dps
  2. me (rogue): 227
  3. shadow priest: 210
  4. warlocks: 190 dps
  5. warrior: 180 dps
  6. feral dudu: 160 dps

On overall data, I came out as top 1. whith this talent build https://www.wowhead.com/classic/talent-calc/rogue/005-02330500205001-05

Tried different builds to try find a solid hybrid PvP/PvE/world mob killing and this came out the best in terms of:

  • short burst (280-400 dps on 40-43 mobs, depends on mob and how much they dodge me) and players. was able to melt a mob with 500 dps when he did not dodge anything and crited every attack. these numbers are when attacking from front (dodge, parry, no bonus from subtlety tree)
  • keeping long-term high damage output,
  • survivability due to slightly increased dodge and improved sprint for removing movement-blocking effects, so I can dispel move effects not only with vanish but with sprint as well.
  • hit chance! for dual wield it is so crucial! dual-wield reduces hit chance by a LOT! In BG as a sub tried to ambush a mage and I got: miss, then I got revealed, tried to spam mutilate: miss, and another attack: miss. by the time i had no combo points on him, had vanish on CD, had blind on CD, he just frost nova walk away, i shadowstep he blink. yey

Tried the wowhead talents and icy veins and other builds, subtlety builds… but this gives me the best results FOR MY PLAYSTYLE overall. Since then my BG usefulness improved, my DPS in dungs improved, can farm lvl 45 npcs without dying every time even if they dodge/parry almost all my attacks.

Build focuses on high passive crit and hit chance (27% with raid buffs, 22% unbuffed), while having +30% backstab/mutilate, having blade furry for some 20% speed and AoE and having 20% more damage from behind.

If you think whatever you are doing is the way to do it, then do it, but dont complain when your - to be frank - bad playing makes it hard for you. Any class would be bad if played as sloppy as you are playing the rogue, and they cant balance things around people keyboard turning and looking for their opponents for 10 sec.

I watched the video with some guildies yesterday and somebody asked ā€œDo you think this guy would even listen to feedback?ā€. And the answere is clear.

ā€œThinking aheadā€, yeah, using ur best defensive and offensive CDs when ur attacking nothing and nothing is attacking you. Pro gamer move ,…

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Show me how YOU play your rogue in SoD, because everyone can give general tips and tricks that worked in P1 and back in the day or newer expansions.

I could go and spam priests with tips that I played hundreds if not thousands of hours in PvP back in day. Yet those tips and tricks are out of date in SoD, classes changed, a lot.

Show me how you deal with a situation, when you attack one, you have CD on some key abilities and then you get dotted and slowed by ranged people, and try to exit a bad fight.

And that’s where you and others are missing the point of my post and SoD!

Let me again somehow rephrase myself:

That streamer you mentioned, item swapping between fights, video ā€œ20.000 hoursā€ he is probably very skilled, well sorry I don’t have 20.000 hours on rogue and time to play SoD for 2.X years to master a class. That’s for retail players! Not SoD!

My friend played wow for the first time in SoD with Warlock tank and can beat so many other classes just by pressing life-drain and spam searing pain, occasionally sacrificing VW for bubble.

I went BG on my priest alt on lvl 25, was spamming SWD and some heals, and just had fun, rarely killed by a rogue (thanks fear, bubble). Went with a feral druid and had fun, could heal, could prevent other druids rogues from going stealth, I brought something to the ā€œtableā€ without extensive 20k hours of experience playing the class.

So why would I be expected to have such a hard skill to play rogue, if other classes do not require it due to their runes?

THAT’S the point!

My man, like said, not only are you far from skill capped, you play Rogue like somebody else would play a Warrior - then you come to forums and complain. It’s like eating soup with a fork with your ā€œwrongā€ hand and complaing that a fork is a bad tool for eating.

I wouldnt pop CD before

  1. They are acually needed. Poping Evasion, Berserking and Blade Flurry while not even at your target wastes their duration and renders them useless.
  2. I acually know that Im going to be attacked. Becuase if I played that Druid in your video, I would KITE you until your CDs are down, then attack you when you have nothing. Why would a player with half a brain even engage with you while you have these things up 30 yards from them, unless forced by you acually using it when within melee range and ā€œon their backā€.

If I played a rogue, I certainly wouldnt tunnel the one target in it’s >Tanking form<, but try to find targets already engaged focusing on others (like the Rogue that helps you does after you have soaked all the damage/attention from the enemy), ā€œsickly gazellesā€ and alone defenders.

Your strenght, again I repeat this, isnt teamfights as the first player in, but going in when nobody has time to focus you or cheery picking quick and easy kills. That or going on flag caps (AB) with Sap > Trinket > Blinds and getting free flags.
If you want to play ā€œhead onā€ there are better classes out there for it than the rogue.

Thousands hours holding a guitar doesnt make you a good violin player, especially if you want to play the violin like a piano.

i’m kinda agree rogue not OP at all. Since this weekend i miss\resist 30% stuns and that ruin everying if u have at least 1 cd. You are good only if you have no cd, you also must have ā€œteaā€ for energy otherwise u can’t kill. (In 4 sec kidney u wont get even 40 energy for multilate). Also remember that most trinkets now cant remove stun and that will be different soon, when people get sergant major. Also u need full bag of some rubish like powders posions and other. i thought hunter with ammo bag not fair, i was wrong. Rogues fun, strong in 1v1 when CDs ready, but not tier S for in-game content. Game kinda broken now when healer have dispersion, mages have heal and etc. Rogues didnt win makgora tournament even close why would they be OP now? If they get less then other classes? Got only shadowstep and multi, shadowstep on GCD so painfull

lmfao, whatever keeps you above water. OP enough to be nerfed into the ground like priest and druids were.

but what would u nerf only skill that capable? Look dmg raptor strike = multilate. Priest still tier s. Nerf SWD from 900dmg to 550 and get 10% buff to other skill. Boomie also strong enough and have big dmg. Problem is people want one-shot everything from their point of view and when they dont get it they cry instead of finding the way

Mutilate to 60 energy, as it should be.
BtE and QD to 10y.
Shadowstep 15y.
These are the only worth while nerfs.

Raptor strike is far more annoying, at least Mutilate costs energy, and even then both have to be nerfed into the ground.

Touch some actual grass, Boomie and SP went to A and even B tier, Rogues still S tier in PvP.

When SP and Boomies have to actually hard cast to get value now, rogues spam Muti and call it skill LMFAO. Literally insane how delusional rogue players are to believe they had any skill in SoD to begin with. It is the most braindead class in PvP and nothing else compares.

That’s actually cope, this isn’t even the issue, Blizzard nerfed ranged by somuch that they overlooked the two outrageous outliers in Rogue and Melee hunter for literally weeks.
They also BUFFED Mutilate to begin of P2, there’s a reason why it costs 60 energy.
But hey rogues surely need skill to beat anything, right?

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lol now i see how it works and why balance so bad, it’s just people who dont play class decide what to change

Again wrong, but what is expected from someone like you at this point who’s purpose is to be a 24/7 troll on the forums.
The mere fact that Blizzard literally does overkills on nerfs, especially the one’s done for Boomkin, made that spec inviable. They do frost mage DPS in gnomeregan, which is literally the bottom of the barrel. And before Eclipse/Dreamstate you won’t be casting Starfire at all, basically a hard damage nerf where casting Starfire is a DPS and efficiency loss.

https://youtu.be/T5-Hdn2_cNg

seen this one, did not see his gameplay how he escapes after he is dotted and charged by 3 people while he is attacking some priest in the back.