what of rogue can be nerfed on pvp? mutilate? it was bufed because of pve, even then we will use backstab, same dmg, same energy cost, now you die from muti dmg, then will die from backstabs dmg. the CC rogue have is the same as it was in classic. Stunlock was a thing and it is still, but now with new trinkets all have 1 more way to work around it. Classes/specs nerfed for pvp was way more different than that, for example hunter pets killing ppl 1v1, balance druids, SP 2-shoting ppl (750dmg+ mind blast, SWD- 850+dmg)
And the question is, why you think that i complain, when I simply put the facts, when actually you are crying for rogue nerfs, maybe you get ganked a lot by them, well it happens, and it was always like that, what we can doâŠ
Mutilate is a hard hitting 2cp generator for 40 energy, 2cp is a lot considering any other ability to get combo points is either 40 or less giving 1 or 60 or above giving 2cp.
Muti costs 40 and gives 2cp, thats literally BiS rune for any content.
Backstab literally has position requirements, Mutilate doesnât.
And now you can slow and stun from 20yards away, what idiot idea to give rogue that kind of toolkit when paladin for reference has a 1min cd on a 10y stun.
If you wear PvE gear in outdoors location you deserved to be 1shot/2shot, also thereâs more to SP that people just forget and donât care. VP and SWP, you get the jump on SP or anyone else that isnât a metalock and you will win to 90% of the time, 10% is that RNG stun.
Balance druids were overnerfed but okay.
Ah well, atleast it was a rogue that won the OTK HC tournament, right? Oh waitâŠ
At any rate, middle of the pack in PVE is fine imo.
And in regards to PVP⊠Sure, 1v1 Rogue has the high ground (most of the time). The stunlock was a possibility in Vanilla/Classic, so thats not a difference now.
But, how often is it 1v1? In STV? or BGâs?
And bursty? Against some classes perhaps, but definitely not all. Added to the fact that there are more classes with similar burst.
if you look at rogue pvp spec you will see that we can do the stunlock without mutilates 2 CP
every good rogue position himself, with muti or not we try hit from back.
y, you need CP and energy to use that 20y stun, you have to plan ahead, i give my 20y stun for an bubble, or HoF.
cant be stacked with sunder armor
exactly. buff rogue dmg pronto!
can we get gloomblade, what can bypass the armor by 30% instead as an trade off?
because it was most likely p1 gear, and rogue isnt that good in the early phase, u do zero noodle dmg with preraid bis gear, but at aq 40/ naxx u literally destroy everyone
most likely mages, or warri tanks are doing this
I honestly dont think they should nerf rogues, I think they should buff other classes to have counterplay.
Rogues have good design. The problem is vanilla has an extreme lack of useful defensive CDs on most classes/specs, and trinket CD is a God damn FIVE MINUTES. This in combination with low TTK makes rogues very broken.
But it is quite easily fixable.
- Make the Rank 5 trinket 2 min CD. Helps survive stunlock more often. Also helps vs shadowpriests 100-0 you in Silence with 0 counterplay.
- Give specs/classes without any useful defensive CDs something. WOTLK Barkskin for ferals, passive dmg reduction in cat, spell reflect for warrior/enraged regen lower CD, mobility for rets etc. There needs to be counterplay.
Donât forget we only @ lvl 40 atm, still a lot of new things coming. I bet you will have epic trinket @ 60 with 2 min cd.
And some classes already got new defenses, like priests got their dispersion.
we rogues donât care about damage.
all we want to be able to do is have a way to blind or kick without losing all our combo points and have proper reduce healing poisons not thise garbo -375 healing. give us tbc reduce healing
also in regards too this let me tell you how it works for a rogue in a skilled level ceiling.
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warrior resists stuns on top of stuns and 2-3 swings on you youâre dead.
if you arenât playing absolutely Perfect warrior wins all the time. -
warlock presses trinket on your stun and restorative potion and just dots you + runs around. youâll die because his self healing is too powerful.
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shadow priest. Shield eats away cheapshot damage. Presses dispersion on Kidneyshot.
then after that if you go for a reset he swaps to a pain supression rune. with Gearswapping. if itâs a dwarf he can go ahead and trinket cheapshot and press fear + dot on you. -
Druid boomkind druid is very easy to kill unless he has prehotted himself.
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feral druid with survival of the fitest.
Yep you arenât killing him at all. he can even press barkskin during your stuns lmao.
by time heâs out of stuns heâs 70% hp and you press your evasion by time evasion is out. druid is at 50% and doing mangle crits for 700+ damage.
then due to the fact that you are faerifired you canât really get another cheapshot on the druid. so thereâs not really anyway to reset the fight. -
dwarf retri paladin. presses trinket on kidney, repetences you.
heals up your damage you did in cheapshot.
then gets an auto attack swing+divine storm and crits 60% of your health before he uses hand of justice.
only way to win this fight is with a 10 minute cd for double blind. -
mage kinda auto win.
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disc priest kinda auto win.
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orc hunter. impossible to win
reasonings as too why, you are never getting cheapshot, due to the fact that he sits by his flare all the time.
then since shadowstep is bugged being on global cooldown, so you canât shadowstep kidneyshot.
you are basically praying to win the lottery of being wing clipped and trying too reach hunters back for a kidneyshot.
wing clip is 55% slow cripling poison is still 50% in phase 2
Shaman is rough to win since everyone is playing orc shamans you 're praying to get stuns to not resist against 35% stun resist chance.
Rogue vs rogue is all about Whoever gets the opener ââvery fun fightââ
ahh which class did i miss now hmm.
Skill issue
Skill issue.
what if you dont got a SP or Warrior to begin with? rogues are the last option and will expose if especially with mutilate being busted.
warrior tanks are useless and the worst with paladins right now, not sure why you would ever bring one, and mages press buttons on that fight, this also means that mage will be on CD every 2nd Toxic Ventilation.
priest uses it you blind em, reset. itâs a wasted dispersion.
reset the fight is a common thing so you can actually get the CS stun, alas you play like a bot and deserved to lose, also crippling poison kiting.
nonmetalocks are literally free kills, CC the pet (Blind/Gauge) kill lock, W.
metalocks you do not engage. also who the heck uses a restorative potion, havenât seen one against the many locks i encountered.
you assume people have the brain to gearswap when you blinded/sapped the priest? lmao.
i literally hear skill issue in that post @Aslyna lmfao.
it is possible to buff rogue in PVE while simultaneously nerf it in PVP. Reducing boss armor in raid encounters is a possibility although perhaps not ideal since melee will catch up soon. perhaps buff sinister strike or expose armor in some way.
People crying about rogues , this guy got ganked while killing mobs somewhere then he runs to the forums. A rogue cant 100-0 any1 without using cd/thistle tea. Now Lets see What other classes do.
A ret can melt A rogue inside A HOJ
A shadow priest disperse/fear unntil forever. Just needs to survive the first stun or second with trinket or despersion.
Shamans are A joke right now , globals you in 3 sec anyway. Like hitting A Brick wall.
LOCKs in meta no point Even opening on.
Hunters are like tanks , sends pet an Kites you to death.
Only reason rogues can nuke scrubs is by the said scrub running around with 1500 hp gear.
Every Class can Get trinket to survive that first burst. If rogue does not crit its over.
Worst Runes out there , rogues are supposed to gank almost every1 with all cds up 1on1. Thats how the class wos built. Now see fights vs more people. Rogues getting melted without cloak
i like how the potatoes of the world of warcraft decided that the yellow class that dies to a couple dots is the op one, and not the casters being able to do 1k crits with a single cast
in most scenarios you die to a rogue because of one of 3 reasons : Reason 1, you are bad. Reason 2, your class is bad against rogue. Reason 3, you are bad, and your class is bad against rogues
Holy cow this false information spreading is insane, too bad we argue with an idiot who doesnât even know how to open up on people and the concept of resetting or avoiding certain classes. Ah well here we go arguing with this clown that represents his class so poorly. You can 100-0 without thistle tea, what a load of BS.
not as often as a rogue can 100-0 people, but okay.
Both cases, Blind/Gauge, reset? Clueless rogues jesuschristlmfao.
Elemental/Resto shamans are free kills, enhance depends on WoE rune.
Now you understand engaging Metalocks is a bad idea as a physical DPS? Took you a long time.
Wtf you talking about? CC pet you win?
Trinket delays the inevitable clapping that rogues do, reset and vince and repeat.
now rogues do that without using multiple CDs, great design blizz.
I mean all the people crying dont even realize that a single engi consume can do HALF THE ROGUES HEALTH IN DAMAGE, and a 20 silver potions means that u can only die to a very good rogue that resets fight for 30+ secs. points to skill issue
gear stam, skill issue.
rogue players arent good to begin with, 90% of them suck and concede to whining for buffs lmfao.
i play rogue tank, and i have 2,3k hp unbuffed with quite a few bis pieces. a goblin land mine does 600 without crit, and 1k with crit. i do believe 90% of rogues suck, but no rogue is asking for buffs. we are asking for utility or a buff we give to raid so we can find raid spots, every rogue thats worth his salt knows we are in a good spot in pvp
Worthwhile to use then in PvP for once, but most donât consider them so barely an issue.
if you just look at the forums, rogue players do have a tendacy to complain about how âuselessâ they are in PvP.
disagree, most rogue complains are about not finding groups, some about blizz being clueless about what tank rogue needs, some about utility. there are a lot of posts from noobs complaining about rogues killing them tho, and the majority of those are skill issues