He’d be like every other DPS in the game? A single stun is enough and if he want’s 2 he should be forced to use vanish for it and vanish should be single use. In the video above the Rogue did around 250k DPS. Is that not enough?
Does rogue really need to be able to do 250k DPS, be able to CC the target for 10sec to make sure they can’t react, and be immune while doing it?
And imagine that even if you press buttons the rogue will still kill you - the video above the RDruid had 3 active treants which heal for a TON, he had WALL and Frenzied Regen (32% HP heal) and still died in 4-5sec while dampening was only 11%. The RDruid used everything but trinket and was still dead.
I wasn’t even talking about sub specifically, I try to speak about “Rogue” in general cause all 3 specs are overloaded, not only Sub lol.
When you press the spell and deal 180k to two people and 120k to the third, its a very valuable global in terms of damage. And it does kill people.
Affliction is a spec that aims at killing everyone. Of course your pure single target burst won’t compare to Subtlety or Marksmanship. But the spec is able to dish out crazy damage, and burst, if played correctly and enabled.
Yeah but if you describe a setup only made by Subtlety and add to it DRs possessed only by Assa then it does look like you don’t know what you talk about and just make a mixed bag of stuff just to push an inaccurate point.
So using cloak - avoiding dmg is not having some sort of control over it for example?
If you keep getting hit, sure, but you have ways to make it alot less likely to drop enough HP for it to be gone, since, if it was gone for that much, you wouldnt use it.
Yes and no. It depends how good you are on keeping it tracked or if theres a weakaura that shows you it. For majority of part you wont bother too much about it since its extra damage, but you can still have control of it if thats what you are fully going for even if it might not be “the best” at times.
Not in control, atleast to me, is things you cant fully do anything about like RNG procs.
While things you can proc through interrupts and more is something you have more or less control over.
Majority of things can die through stuns aswell, but people complain only their class/spec can die through stuns xd
Yes I agree, but I feel like they just see a rogue and believe they are all the same even if they clearly arent
But its also the same when ppl talk about warlocks, mages, hunters etc etc. Quite sad when ppl cant just argue about specifics with specs.
Pre trading Cloak before a go to remain at 100% health to benefit from a slight mastery bonus, I doubt.
That way you die when you’re supposed to stay alive, and you can’t even use it offensively during the go because you used it like an idiot for 0 reason.
You’re being very unrealistic if you think that anyone has 100% control over that embellishment. There is a reason why it is viewed as a bad embellishment on squishy classes.
You don’t understand. It has nothing to do with knowing. It has to do with the fact that you cannot not trigger it. If the guy casts Polymorph on your healer you will interrupt it. If your teammate is being killed you will peel, which involves CC or interrupt. And you may know that it would trigger the main stat proc, but it doesn’t matter because you still have to perform an action.
And so, it triggers.
That is true. But some specs are more vulnerable than others !
Never said 100% control. I said control which can wary. The clip he showed, were him using that embellishment.
And you dont seem to understand what im pointing towards either.
Knowing something will be off cooldown in 1-2seconds before your go or knowing your next interrupt/CC will trigger it will allow you to do your “go” within the time period you have it on.
It lasts for 10 sec and it has a 30 sec cooldown.
So for 20 sec outside of it, it wont be there which otherwise it will. Keeping track or knowing about it, allows you to have somewhat control when you want to put it or when you should have your go. Majority wont care and will just keep going as normal, while some might be able to actually benefit the most out of it.
Well, sure, but im quite sure any spec with no cds can die in a stun regardless of spec, obviously some can die faster than others, but generally anyone can die inside it x)
Yeah well if you are 10s away from your own go, you will still interrupt that CC that would make your team trade seven CDs. You will never, ever hear, even at the HIGHEST level of play with an actual super tryhard who thinks tracking this is a good idea “nah I can’t stop that Hex bro I need my 500 ish bonus main stat in like 10s”.
Well. First, most specs with CDs die in stuns, but some not as much because they can still access defensives (DK, Druid, Paladin, Mage). And second, even in a total “no cds” scenario… Warlocks, DKs and Outlaw have more HP. DKs take less damage when low on HP. DHs take less magic damage passively. Priests take less damage passively. Warriors are likely to be in DStance and take less damage. And so on. Etc.
Then there are specs like Assa, Windwalker, Devastation that just insantly die in any stun that they did not predict with a significant cooldown, because they have no passive or active defense against stuns.
I mean if you want to make it sound like the proc is RNG and you have absolutely no way to use it in a controlled manner, then we agree to disagree x)
Not everyone is equal. Everything is based on conditions.
Saying something “instantly dies” in any stun because they did not predict and used a significant cooldown isnt that great either. Otherwise those 3 specs are quite amazing in predicting in general to be able to climb.
No, it is simply that arena is about more than one player. For instance when I play RLP my two teammates know that when I get stunned and enemies have even a little bit of damage, I am very likely to die. So, they know that, when I get stunned, they have to use stuff to make sure I do not die if I didn’t predict the stun and use something to protect myself. However, when my Warlock gets stunned, I don’t always have to make sure he doesn’t die because half the time he can do so himself. But I can still help if he requires it. The difference is that he doesn’t always need help because he will not die in most stuns, whereas I need a lot of assistance because I die in almost every offensive stun.
More likely to die in a stun yes.
Instantly die in a stun no.
Big difference between them, one is indicating that you will die in a stun instantly while the other indicates you have a higher chance of dying in a stun due to certain reasons like passive mitigation etc.
Why I said talking about “Instantly dies” in a stun is a bad way to argue.
Sigh, okay, I guess using the word “instantly” makes you focus on “immediately in one singular frame” too much, and that is impossible unless you tank a raid boss spell meant to oneshot, so that never happens in PvP.
Good talk.
Meanwhile it doesn’t change that my spec, and others too, dies in every single offensive stun if left unassisted and if the enemy team isn’t made of terrible players unable to sync damage and CC, while other specs like the Warlock ones do not. Period. That is how the game is. And that’s not a bad thing, too. Some specs will die in a stun while others won’t easily.
If you dont explain what you, yourself mean with “instantly” what do you believe I should read? That it means 2-4sec into the stun?
Which I never said anything about. Some specs dies easier in stuns compared to others, which I also never said is wrong or bad. Game has to have its differences or it would be insanely boring for actual players.
3v3 is about coordination and helping eachother. Some specs needs more help with kiting, some specs needs more help with peeling etc. Thats basics.
Rogues die? Isn’t the biggest issue here that they have crazy DMG, crazy control and crazy survivability? Haven’t people been saying that if rogue wants to have high DMG and control they should lose their survivability?
How is a spec that can immune melee, immune spells, dispell all dots and bleeds, vanish multiple times and after that immune everything again, smokebomb to stop any casters, duel a healer, solo triple CC the enemy team have low survivability? When you use evasion + cos + trinket + smokebomb + duel in the opener you should get one shot after that, but well you still have two vanishes, reset on evasion and cheat death.
Sub is just a monster that has everything and no real weakness. Your only weakness is your team messing up a DR not allowing you to solo a game.
Rogues and mages always feels good in pvp, in every xpac. If they were nerfed - all the crybabies appears at forums and whines about “oh nooo we poor rogues got nerfed for 3%, set it back!”.
And now remember what happens, if rpally start to feels good.
Also nobody speaking of how disgusting Night Elfs are. It’s funny how far this racial made it while every other racial got gutted 50 times into uselessness.
Open ladder literally 90% are Nelfs. Everything that can be Nerf is a Nelf. Remake it, nerf it whatever idc it’s getting kinda boring seeing rogues abuse this for 10+ years and now basicly every1 is abusing it. Every game feels like a try to land a spell challenge (impossible).
I think the worst offender is cheap shot going through evasion/FoF and all defensives.
If you can evade cheap shot then you can properly defend vs sub. Otherwiwse you just die in duels helpless when they offensively CloS
Hard counter for sub rogue cheese: (need extra gear)
-Earthen devotion enchant on weapon = if proc he wont kill
-Some stamina gems on extra gear to swap
-Undulating cloak
Wining condition for sub rogue is that their victim has no trinket or damage stop cooldown if those conditions are meet its automatic cheese win for rogue.
Also keep noticing when rogue shadowduel you, he will either kill you or you will survive on 5%… gear I mention above will gief you that 5%. Its all about to survive shadow duel attempts. You shoud arrange your gear so you not allow rogue to baypass your health in one go.
