Rogues are OP in all PVP content and always have been there is no argument needed for this. Its just you rogue mains that are incredibly delusional, even if we gave vanish a forbearance mechanic, gave stealth a 1 min cd, removed subterfuge rogues would still be beyond broken. The control needs to put on par with other specs so its fair.
I usually complain that our voice is rarely heard here on these forums, but then I read comments like this, and realize that perhaps its better for the game that we are ignored.
Right ? It is mind-boggling to see that these players have the same right to post. When you read idiocies like this ⌠hope leaves
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Assa gameplay feels terrible. noodle envenom dmg, but op spread dmg, like a feral bought on wish
Assa gameplay was way more fun in Legion or Bfa
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You know what´s funny about this? forum just promoted my trust level btw.
But anyway my opinion stands nerf sub rogue to unplayability, buff outlaw/assa.
I agree with this, the ability to spam stuns out of stealth so often and for so long is nuts - either change it or put a CD on cheapshot or something, spamming CS to stun their trinket is broken af, can literally control an entire team
So you want the one spec that is usually the best rogue spec to be even better? Also Outlaw wont have shadowstep next patch and doesnât have double. The double vanish is to make up for the loss of Shadowdance and that is mostly the whole crackshot talent build that benefits from it offensively. Defensively they hardly benefit from vanish.
I suggest Outlaw and Assassin will get a buff to Ambush. 1 Ambush instantly kills an enemy player or raid boss.
How would removing something all rogues have and giving it to only 1 of the 3 specs, make that third spec better?
I mean I can reformulate it if that would help you;
- Outlaw: Remove double vanish, double shadowstep and Subterfuge.
- Assassination: Remove double vanish, double shadowstep and Subterfuge.
- Sublety: No change.
Hope this makes it easier to understand.
This is actually getting removed in 11.0.5
At least some good news for today.
then Assa needs a rework, because Subterfuge is the reason, or one of the main Reason why he doe´s so much Dmg, and have Controll over the Game, without Subterfuge u wont see a Assa rogue anymore
i hate Playing against Assa, and the Gameplay is in a weird spot, but we should be realistic here
i mean u can remove it, but then u have to buff the other spells to counterbalance it, so that you do not have to rely on subterfuge and garrote
also about the double Shadowstep remove, u cant just Nerf one Problematic thing when stuff like Perma evoker hover exist, Mw monk kite ability, Mage mobility, Dark ranger Hunters
what am i reading, so to get this right, the best rogue spec in the game does not need any changes/nerfs but the others do?
Sry but if u start like this, then i want Shadow duel to be removed.
You seem to struggle a lot with the English language. No, this was a rephrase of my prior message which you also misunderstood.
What I am suggesting is 1 change, not all changes. Making this change does not exclude making other changes.
I have mained Rogue since Vanilla. Assa have worked perfectly fine for several expansions without the need for Subterfuge. Its quite frankly insanely easy to fix.
You are correct that the game suffers from mobility inflation. I would like to fix this, but as a rogue main, I also want to be open with the community and awknowledge what aspects of our class that should be nerfed to be more fair. Assa is about DoT damage, we do not need the same mobility as Outlaw and Sublety which require direct damage to apply pressure.
It used to be like this;
- Sublety had more mobility (shadowstep)
- Assassination had better slows (poison)
- Combat had better damage
This is also why Combat was the prefered PvE spec.
Fine by me. I have no opinion about this.
im be honest, I didnât read your other post sry for that
Played also Rogue Tbc-Wod and switched in late Wod from rogue to feral. u say easy to fix, but how can be something easy to fix, if the whole spec need´s a rework then
the current Assa rogue is completely designed around M+ so how u want to Balance it âso easilyâ
Subterfuge is also needed for pve. so u have to change the game designe there too, dont get me wrong, i dont wanna sound biased, but it´s not as easy as u think it is, and blizz is also lazy, they cant even balance the current existing specs
in M+ rogue opener is Spaming garrote on everything, and without the stealth benefit of Garrote it does noodle Dmg, but if u remove the stealth requirement, rogue have no downtime on an op Aoe bleed
if u remove the extra step, u have to revert the removal of the Sprint Pvp Talent, otherwise u have a ww Monk 2.0 what is sitting in a wheelchair while getting Spam Chain of ice/slowed
im up for the Vanish removal tho and buff baseline dmg instead or something else/ Double vanish is just too strong in the fast pace enviorment, and is like a walmart bubble
No problem 
I donât think it needs a âhuge reworkâ. The core of Assassination has been the same since TBC; Mutilate, Envenom, Rupture and Garrote. Poison and bleed damage. Nerf the opener buffs and buff the DoT damage and you fixed it. No reason to center Assassination around jumping in and out of stealth, the specc didnt do that before so why force it now?
This follows here; everything in WoW is man made, and so is this design. There is no reason to force this jumping in and out of stealth build if it makes them terrible to play against in pvp. If we change the philosophy so you only enter from stealth as you initiate, we can tune the rest of the damage to follow this logic.
I agree here. Double vanish is insane. And it gets worse. Ive mained NELF since Vanilla, but now it just happens to be the best rogue race too because Shadowmeld acts as a third vanish⌠I have it macroed so I go from shadowmeld to stealth right away, so for all intents and purpose, its a third vanish.
Which means that currently, because of Subterfuge, I get to use my cheap shot and silencer garrote FOUR TIMES in a single fight.
Heâs not wrong though. 
Most assas rogue still flop real easy.
I believe you have been mistaking me for someone who cares.
This is exactly why you appear stupid. Ideally every spec is playavle without being over the top. Wishing for something to be basically removed from the game just because you are unable to deal with instead of wishing for smart tuning is idiocy.
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there has never in the games history ever been smart tuning for rogues so just glue your mouth from end to end please ty. It needs to redesigned completely the cc kit should match everybody elses.
Rogue mains like you will defend sublety rogue till ur dying breath even though deep down you know its insanely overpowered.
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No. Listen up pal. We should make all 36 class/specc combos balanced. I play 4 classes in TWW equally (Sub, Fmage, WW Monk, Spriest). I donât fear rogue on any of them. You know why? Because I understand how Rogueâs work.
Rogue is one of the most methodical classes. The way you counter Rogueâs are by utilizing your tools at the right time. Most people use their stuns when they need to, such as casters stunning you before a cast, but this is the wrong strategy versus a Rogue. You save your stun when the Rogue pops its burst CDs.
You play a Dwarf Windwalker Monk, you have all the tools you need to win a 1v1 versus a Rogue, and I know this because I avoid Windwalkers on my own Rogue and I regularely eat rogues on my Windwalker Monk.
Here is what you do;
- Use Fists of Fury with Turbo Fists to make Rogue waste energy on you.
- Use Disarm (Grapple Weapon) to stop the Rogue from continuing his damage rotation.
- Use Dwarf Racial to clear bleeds. Versus Assassination, pop it when you see the big red Deathmark sign on you.
- Versus Sublety, save your stuns for when the Rogue turns purple, then follow up with a disarm and then a Fists of Fury once disarm is done.
- If Fists of Fury, Disarm or Leg Sweep is on CD, use both Touch of Karma + Diffuse Magic. You use Diffuse Magic because Subletyâs Shadow Damage and Assassinationâs Poison damage counts as magic damage.
Once the Rogueâs Go has been countered, pop Storm, Earth and Fire + Invoke Xuen and start your damage burst rotation. The crucial part here is that you donât let the Rogue reset the match, you survived the burst now you must stick to the Rogue as much as you can.
I think Sub having access to spam Cheap Shot can be fine, but I donât really understand how itâs been allowed to keep its baseline Energy cost over the years.
They really oughta just crank CS up to like 80-100 Energy. Itâd have absolutely zero ramifications on PvE and itâd curb Subâs whole 100-0âing people in a stun DR of their own doing gimmick.
The only way you balance Shadow Dance (and current iteration Sub as a whole) is by making them actively choose between CC and Damage. You canât let them have both or the spec breaks the game.
That way you might actually help make Shadowy Duel fair, too.