Currently it’s painfully slow to progress beyond 619 hero track, to the point where a lot of people just quit M+ and do delves instead for alts, or they simply stop playing.
My M+ group is playing less and less every week, and from what it looks like the season will be over for us within a few weeks, maybe sooner. People feel like they are done with their mains after getting 2500 ach and all the portals from +10. Yes, we can still get myth track from vault, but what’s the point when we already finished our goals?
Nobody is interested in doing the same grind on multiple alts either, and none of us are on a skill level where can just take any 610ilv alt and just breeze through +10 keys. Even with the 5 crest discount pr upgrade on hero track gear, it’s still too slow.
The gear process in Dragonflight was so much better. I had more active characters, and played longer.
It seems that with TWW Blizzard invented this problem that if people get gear too fast they quit. So they over correct the opposite way, and now we have a system where gearing is so slow that people quit anyway…
Ion has already said in a recent interview that they missed the mark on some pain points with the progression in M+, and the transition from people gearing in delves and coming into M+.
While he didn’t say specifically what their plans are, best guess is we will get myth track vault from +9 (or lower) next season, and maybe some crest tuning.
What I don’t understand is why we have to wait 3+ months for something that could clearly be done with a hotfix? Or at the very least with patch 11.0.7.
I love how every single thread is “I don’t feel motivated to play this game. Give us better rewards!”
Meanwhile, a game should be about… Enjoyment. You honestly cannot play M+ just to have fun?
Of course, I am not saying that now we have to remove all rewards, based on this logic. Having progression feels nice. But once you reached your end of progression, you can still play… you know… because you like it?
Also
Let’s hope not.
Getting a Myth track item should be special. Doing a 10 is special.
While i am agreeing with you; it is true the most played and enjoyable seasons were the ones where we got easier loot. That doesn’t mean we should get a full gearset for logging in.
Something like s3 DF looks like one of the most succesfull ones. We got Myth track in the vault from a +8, and upgraded hero track was very powerfull (not very far from full myth track) while we got those in the vault from a below M0 in difficulty (M+8 back then).
Obviously I don’t play M+ for only rewards. It’s just as much a social thing to do with friends, and for the most part we enjoy the gameplay. But character power/progression is also part of the fun. It’s an RPG after all and I want cool stuff for my characters. If I have to fight for some scraps, I’m not going to bother at all.
And if myth track gear could be farmed, then I agree it should be more difficult to get. But it’s locked behind weekly reset, so even if you’re the luckiest person ever, it still takes 4 months to get a myth track piece in ever slot, and assuming you need a few weeks to work your way up to that, it basically takes the whole season to get full myth track gear.
I think the gear progression in Dragonflight was miles better than what we have now. For some reason Blizzard just decided to completely scrap a system most people liked, including the bullion vendors.
I’m not saying that my M+ group represents the sentiment for every player, but every single one of us went from playing 3-4 characters each for most of the season, to just playing a main and slowly losing interest after we got all +10 keys timed. Nobody wants to repeat the grind all over again, so they just stop playing instead…
At the moment its do an 11 easily, get the crap kicked out of you in a 12. Great progression system.
It should be somewhat linear. Peoples mileage will vary but doing an 11 shouldn’t feel like a 5k funrun and then a 12 feeling like an ultra marathon in sniper alley.
They’ve borked everything this season. The “stops” is probably the biggest one. Wow dev’s saw DH’s infinitely stop groups casting last expac and ruined it for everybody. Yea, the worlds best players in a petri dish where they could experiment an infinite number of times managed to pull of mad stuff, lets make dungeons harder for the other 99.99999999% of the players as a result.
@ the OP, I bet Ion is going to nerf delves to make M+ more attractive. All this stuff about delves being an endgame pillar was just lip service.
Oh dang it. Guess we should remove all drops from Vault, dungeons and raids and replace them with more Crests and Sparks, so that we can fill up all our slots with crafted gear.
Many players feel the same about going from +9 to +10.
I agree that jump might be too much, but the end of the day, it’s just a number. Does it matter if you are struggling on +12 or +16? Any seconds saved on a previous run is big difference on your score in both scenarios.
The point is the jump is too much. When you +2 every +11 and in a +12 you have absolutely no chance, then there’s something wrong.
There’s nothing wrong with barely timing 15’s and not timing 16’s and find naturally your cap.
Fact remains that the vault was designed for raiders, and effectively replaced the “lucky charms” of MoP. And M+ just piggybacks on it. And of course, it creates problems if you use a tool that was not designed for it.
Think about it: If the vault disappears tomorrow, raiders barely loose anything. They still kill bosses and loot bosses. They would gear up just as they do now, but slower. M+ on the other hand, you would literally be stuck with Hero Track. FOR EVER.
What this means is that for raiders the Vault is a “bad luck protection”. While for M+ is literally a time-gate to gearing where you get 1 upgrade per week.
And I agree with time-gating gear acquisition. In fact, 1 upgrade per week sounds fair to me. But I am saying that if you stack a time-gate on top of RNG its gonna produce something really frustrating.
So. The proper way of delaying how fast people gear up is the following:
Either double down on RNG and get drops on dungeons (like raiders do) and the vault is just bad luck protection… OR…
Dont allow drops (like we are today) but give a deterministic gear upgrade per week.
And the best way to do this is to allow to but 1 upgrade from Hero to Myth of 1 item you already have. Per week, and assuming you did 8 +10s. With the 6 coins you can opt to if you dont like anything in the vault.
It is a bit difficult to have fun when the lived experience as a DPS is a “Declined Simulator” with people with substantially lower rating constantly declining you. It is hard to have fun when it feels like a chore just to get into a group.
I am spending on average 30-40 minutes applying for groups before I get invited only for a person to rage quit because of a death which is easily an hour of time wasted.
The issue is not the rewards. The reward ilvl is fine. It is the unforgiving punishment for simple failures and the communitys obsession with a rating.
I have pugged many of my own keys with people with less rating who have been more positive, less toxic and able to take feedback on board.
They could also have done something with weekly vault like:
Myth track 1/6 from +8
Myth track 2/6 from +10
Myth track 3/6 from +12
It would smooth out the transition for people trying to progress into +10 keys, and at the same time the 3K+ players who steamroll +12 competing for spots in lower keys.
Again, as long as the only myth track item you can get is 1 pr week and it’s rng on top of that, I don’t really see the problem with it coming from keys below +10. It was never an issue in Dragonflight. Mythic raiders will still get the best gear, if that’s Blizzards goal.
Yep. stuck at 619 ilvl. Cannot get into mythic raids, cause im undergeared.
And guild is farming to high keys for me to join.
So i either pug 8s, or just waste time in wow. After a few bad pug experiences, im not doing pugs anymore. Just too punishing and wasteful of my time. Id honestly do anything else, even clean the house… And i hate cleaning…
Yesterday i spent 1 hour running in circles in Dornogal… Cause i nothing to do, nothing that will give me progress. I ended up doing an Ulduar run for transmog… Time i should have been spending catching up with people. Hopefully i can last untill S2 and gear up with everyone else.
I started 3 weeks late and fell behind. Havnt been able to play the game proper as i refuse the pug gilded farming experience.
They need to fix this. Make gilded more availible. And not gatekept by 8+ mythics pugs that make you hate your life. Cause its so punishing, so meta driven, so stat driven. It takes all the fun out of it.
I can handle +8. But fact is a lot of people cannot. Why gatekeep and make it such a toxic enviorment, by making it so punishing.
Yep, spending time on alts is what ive done to keep myself busy. Leveled all classes to 80 now except Monk/Evoker. But its limited how long that is gonna keep me busy.
They could fix this really easy yes. Its just a matter of will.
It shouldn’t, and that’s the problem this season. Different types of players—hardcore and casual—who shouldn’t be grouped together are being mixed into each other’s content because of the vault system.
With my busy work/life schedule, I want to enjoy the game, and part of that enjoyment is gearing up with the highest-level gear available, without having to work excessively hard for it (we already have jobs for that). I can comfortably complete +8 keys, but I’m forced to do +10, which I don’t actually enjoy, just to receive my mythic gear. No one benefits when players are pushed into content they don’t really want to do.
Deserve or need is a matter of perspective. All players should get the best gear, we all deserve it and we all need it. I finish every week a few +10 just to get my vault slots.
I choose to do it, because i want the myth gear. However i don’t enjoy it, because i die a little bit more , miss more kicks and have a little bit lower dps then average. Every run i do my best to help the groupe, but my skilllevel is often a little bit below the rest of the groupe. +8 is fun, +10 is not, but is required for the vault.
For the more skilled players it would be also better if the vault rewards myth from +8, because the less skilled players join more often the +8, instead of 10 and don’t need to get carried by the better players.
The system is right now a mess and a lot players don’t enjoy the experience, tww is all about punishment. And thats a bit wierd for a game we play in our spare time to relax. To solve it, M+ need a few easy fixes on short term.
A) +8 or lower gives myth gear vault.
B) 1 completed +8 gives 1 vault slot, 2 gives 2 slots and 4 gives 3 slots.
C) Challengers pearl should be removed from the game.
On the long term the reward and item system should be complete changed. Right now, items and vault are for many players the reason to choose their wow activity. Maybee there are other ways. Everyone the same growth in ilvl and power would be an amazing perspective.