Season 4: Lack of tanks and healers (LFG)

It was a nice number … Back in S2 -_-

We are in s4

In +20 last season peopel were doing 150-200k on that Boss … In your itlv .

I mean that is higher than my char simmed. Good for them though. I also claimed i am not good enough as a player for +20’s on dps anyway, so my number is not coming from +20. And i do not think you need +20 dps numbers for current M0, which was the context in the first place.
This is what my char sims right now. I would say it would be quite a challenge to hit 150-200k while doing mechanics.

Thats a single target sim while you were hitting 3 targets.

Wait i though you meant Black rock hold last season as example of ST fight - that’s why i said +20 because people who were 480 were doing those levels last season

You meant brackenhide with the first Boss being cleave fight ?

Black rook hold 1st boss has 3 targets?

I meant black rook hold.

Someone complained about 80k single target in 480 ilvl, so i do not give an example about a 3 boss fight, and i also do give a ST sim. Sounds about rational to me.

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Sorry thought u meant brackenhide

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Are you saying that favoring elitism (or giving tools and API info for addons) creates a problem?

thats awful?
i mean my alt sv hunter in 483 gear did 180k+ dps om first boss brh

anything below 140k is really bad in 480+ gear for basically static bosses

agree u there anyting below 140k is bad

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Rewards wont fix anything. Adressing the systemic problems and making the rolls more fun will. Look at PvP. They incentivized healers with more gold and conquest, but it changed nothing. Because they did not adress the systemic problems.

Here is what needs to be done. IMO.


(ONE) Class balance is important. People dont like to be the nerfed out version of their roll. This season with VDH is an extreme example of what should not be done.

Sure… any tank/healer/dps can do keys. But the more extreme the “meta” becomes, the more it trickes down to lower levels. And that puts people off the roll.

  • Blizz should do more bold and weekly balance tuning. That way, every class will be OP for 1 week, and nerfed for 1 week. And over a season, no class will be OP/nerf for long. What that means is : play whatever you want.

(TWO) Over-reliance on powerful buffs. Comps in any key level are deliberately built around BL, CR, and in keys >8, PI as well.

If you dont have some of these buffs required for a particular group, it excludes you. Just because you dont have 1 button to press.

  • BL, CR, and PI should be re-balanced. PI should be a personal buff of the priest. BL should be given to ALL tanks, and CR to ALL healers. And removed from DPS. DONE. Alternatively, scrolls should be able to be bought with a full effect (so drums with a full 30% BL for example, not 15%).


(THREE) Most of us play mainly M+ or Raid. But very few people play exclusively 1. Tanks in particular (unlike DPS and Healers) have a proportionality problem between Raid and M+. Its the only roll where the # of players does not change with raid size. Its 2 tanks for a 10-man raid, or a 40-man.

So there are many people that would like to tank, but for their raid there is no spot. So they gear up DPS instead. And that means doing M+ as a DPS to get their DPS gear. And then maybe, later in the season they will get their 2nd set of gear to tank. And this, naturally puts many people off.

  • Raids in particular should be an expanded version of the 1-1-3 comp. So a 15-man raid should require 3 tanks, not 2. And a 30-man raid should require 6 tanks. And as an added bonus, it would make tanking a bit less boring that what it is in Raid.


(FOUR) Healers have an existential systemic problem where because over-healing exists, there will never be a global minima where HPS == DRPS. Mathematically speaking there will always be 2 local minima :

Either damage is too spiky and healers are stressed out and nobody plays the roll,

OR, damage is too low and you got comps with 0 healers/healers spend a whole dungeon doing DPS.

  • Blizzard was in the right direction in S1 addressing healer power. They increased mob damage by 40%, but ALSO increased player HP by 40%. And it made sense WHY they did it: Cause otherwise damage would become too spiky. My question here is : why 40%? Why not a dynamic value set by the skill/power of the healer? And if the power of said healer does not match, then buff/nerf said power by a fixed % like they do with the DPS?

(FIVE) Dispel consolidation. It feels REALLY bad when a player dies because of a DOT your class cant dispel. AA with Poison dispel, BH with Disease, Uldaman/Nelth with Curse…

  • I love the “fluff” of having diverse dispel dots to add variety. And I like that DDs can dispel some of them for extra utility. But when it comes to healers, they should be able to dispel ANYTHING that is intended to be dispelled. If there is an encounter that should NOT be dispelled, then NOBODY should.

And with those 5 major fixes, you could start addressing the shortages.

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Good for you? My char sims 140k in 480+ ilvl so i am not going to do 180k+ dps single target :dracthyr_shrug: Not to mention you have to run out when you get the swirlies, so it isnt really static.

People just have unrealistic expectations. Especially for a M0.

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You don’t, you just have to move out of the swirly you previously dropped. You can run in a square off to the side without ever leaving the boss hitbox. Even then having to do that mechanic if you are moving away shouldn’t result in a 33% loss.

You’re right you don’t really need much DPS for m0s, but I’d still say sub 100 st is cause for concern, especially with a tier set.

All you really need in m0s is to do mechanics. There’s no timer for trash and, while there is damage, not enough of it to tax healer mana to a point where you risk them going oom on a boss.


I am only claiming i am not going to do 150k dps on a char that sims lower :joy:
I am a bad dps or player also so whatever.

Eh, you’re a damn sight better than a lot of people. It’s just that measuring based on total population isn’t very useful for making relevant or nuanced comparisons.

I dont heal pugs anymore. Too many people standing in stuff, not interrupting or not doing mechanics. Not worth the stress. I mean 3 people died to the same fire pool on rlp on 2nd boss.

That’s not unrealistic .

That’s just bad.

But to cheer you up - I Play like this on my rogue :slight_smile: for years even though i follow rotations i simply cannot do more then aweful bad dps. Similiarly on mage - im Beyond totaly horrible on it :wink:

Yes i am bad. But even when i was good, i am still not going to do 150-200k dps single on a char that is simming 140k single target on 480+. Which was the statement.

There is a reason i am not good enough on tank and dps for M0 now. I am bad. Said it before, and i keep saying it.

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Naw, you just need experience :dracthyr_nod:

you have been doing +10 since last week - you are definetly ay above average/good player

you just are not amazing on all chars possible - nearly nobody is.

thats why i fund itso funny when people in lfg write stuff like "alt of 3k player " :smiley:

like bro - nobody cares - bring your 3k main - you can be super bad on that particular alts :slight_smile: