If anything Blizzard should take a clue from this and design M+ dungeons in Shadowlands so there’s exactly 100% EF between the tart and the final boss. There’s no favourability for Shroud of skipping is literally antithesis to succes.
I dont know. In legion we also had more but also more options to just pass by. I can not talk about shroud. I havent been in a dungeon with a rogue since somewhere halfway season 2.
I’d rather see choices and routing be relevant, being able to take some trash over others, and maybe using a skip on a hard pack to take an easier one later.
I’d also like to see class specific interactions within dungeons that are built into the dungeon itself. Example being in a magical dungeon, mages have the ability to interact with a volatile portal to create a way to skip a certain area, or whatever. Give us ways for classes to stand out beyond the base utility kit blizzard gives them.
Beyond that though, I do agree though that there should be a basic route through every dungeon that yields 100% trash. Shroud and skips should still provide a group with options though.
Then that’s the only viable alternative. If something is in the way of a boss and it’s faster to skip it then people will seek ways to skip it. and if the class-related skips are implemented as you say then those classes will be 100% required for those dungeons and that’s “bring the class instead of the player.”
We used 2 to 4 invis potions every dungeon in s3 
and some deathskips. It is hard to say there was a need of shroud.
“We can do 100% this way with X trash, or we can do 100% that way with Y trash if we have a mage”.
Which one is best would ideally be down to group comp and preference.
If Y < X, PuGs will 100% bring a mage. Just like no pug ever took anything but a druid healer in S3 for keys above ~13 (unless all druids were somehow occupied and they had to settle for an “inferior” healer…).
If there are classes that can make a dungeon simpler, they will be taken over any other. Since there are more classes than spots in a group, that’s a problem. People want easy and secure runs - an understandable stance, mind you. The solution here is to remove the huge advantage some classes may have, so the playing field is even.
That in no way takes into the human perception of “the path of least resistance.” We try to do things the easiest way possible. So people would take a mage if they could.
Yeah, it was only ridicolously expensive and costs 25+ seconds. Having to pay for skipping only supports my argument.
Idk, i have alchemy, they are free for me. Like my flasks too. It cost nothing. Herbing alchemy is a good combo when you play a char a lot.
(i actually cheat on the invis pots. i have a 110 char in stormheim with those profs too, and it takes 10 minutes to get around 30 skaggldrynks. Which are better invis potions too because you dont get quaking in those. Skaggls have double proc chance, so you make a lot more. You farm the flower, create mana potions from them wich can proc, and then with the mana potions you make the invis potion which also can proc).
It’s new, so takes time to get used to sometimes…you will gear up, and things will improve!
Also got alchemy/herbalism on this one, very useful indeed.
Didn’t know that Legion’s invis pots were better though 
Obviously, I didn’t have this toon in Legion. May consider levelling Legion alchemy for that.
the thing with this seasonal affix is i completely changes how you do the dungeons. Previous seasons whether doing a 5 or a 15 were generally ‘do the exact same route’ now doing a 10 is massively different than doing a 9 with where the obelisks are placed. Meaning you have to fiddle around with the packs you pull, play around with portal skips etc.
I like it, its interesting. The only thing i wish they would change is the adds in the n’zoth realm not interacting with affixes.
What? You want the little adds to Bolster the miniboss? Are you legit a masochist?
No, I’m serious. If you want to do a +11 (which drops 460 gear, mind you), then it is absolutely imperative that you have full 465 azerite pieces and at least 460 ilvl to even stand a chance at timing it. That doesn’t seem balanced to me.
read it again. i want them NOT TO INTERACT WITH AFFIXES. The little adds drop sanguine etc which they shouldn’t.
you are wrong here. Check my gear. 450 helm, 450 chest, 457 ilvl with only the tentacle corruption, i was mostly top dps in these runs. I’ve timed one dungeon at +10, one at +11, 3 at +12 and 2 at +13
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No, you do not. A couple of proofs, all pickup groups:
- TD11:
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-bfa-4/1802748-11-tol-dagor; tank and a DPS were below 460, timed it. - KR11:
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-bfa-4/1398114-11-kings-rest; everyone was below 460, timed it. - KR11:
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-bfa-4/1112764-11-kings-rest; we even had 440s, timed it. - ML11:
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-bfa-4/1484745-11-the-motherlode, only had two over 460, timed it. - UR11:
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-bfa-4/1467174-11-the-underrot: Only two over 460, timed it. - ToS11:
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-bfa-4/996470-11-temple-of-sethraliss: No 460s, timed it. - ToS14:
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-runs/season-bfa-4/2355571-14-temple-of-sethraliss: Two below 460, timed it.
Just to pick a few from my own runs. All were pickup groups.
nop super ez if group know it doing if not will end up tear
Then I guess most people doing m+ nowadays are casuals
What do you even mean? In one post you’re saying you need to overgear it to time in, the next you’re saying most people are casuals. Are you just typing words with no thought or something?
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The statements aren’t mutually exclusive. I recently had my +11 and then +10 keys ruined because there was always a guy in our group who did only 27k dps and was overall useless. Even though his ilvl wasn’t bad.
If you go on bestkeystone.com and display the best affixes per dungeon from only the first 3 weeks of season 3 and then season 4, you will clearly see that at the start of season 3, the success rate and average score was much higher than in season 4.
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