Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying shamans are balanced; they’re very strong.
But they went from being the weakest class in Classic to one of the strongest in SoD; strengthening the weaker classes was the entire point of the rune system. Paladins are super strong too, it’s just that paladin players are less likely to play as part of a team.
The amount of times I’ve seen a paladin prioritise their mana bar over a teammates health-bar is just… Pathetic.
This warrior is getting kited by a mage? No bro I can’t give you freedom; what if I need it in the next 30 seconds?
Dude, I literally just got killed in 3 seconds by a paladin on my rogue. While traveling on my 100% mount. Maybe you shouldn’t complain about Paladins.
if you even had more HP than 3.6k than you would’ve survived that. Not that hard as a rogue to reach with t0.5/t1 and PvP set/items.
People are almost forced to play Shockadin to even proper PvP, 2h builds are just less viable straightup. Basically doing magic damage instead of physical damage.
Where’s that forced playstyle for shamans? You can literally do anything as Ele/Resto or Enhance and succeed in PvP because of their runes being on steroids after each phase.
I have 6/8 Darkmantle set (t0.5), for some reason most of that gear is very low on stamina. But another 500hp or even 1000hp wouldn’t have saved me against a player that can have immunity for 8 or 10 seconds after doing that damage.
Ontopic: hope we get mega servers before BWL/ZG because doing raiding on this dead server I’m on is impossible
whilst shamans exist and can pretty much counter anything, anyone, anytime.
People want to have a legitmate chance against the hero class, not to be hard countered everytime they face one despite the class you play. They got an answer to a majority of threats in this game.
Any melee will get rooted or chased by wolves whilst the shaman runs circles around them, their DPS negated by Riptide existing and their roots/slows removed by Decoy, then proceeded into a Flame Shock > melee dead.
Any caster/ranged will have their spells eaten, potentially rooted/slowed if trying to get away or chased down by wolves, casters/ranged slows negated by Decoy, damage healed through riptide and flame shock ticking for PS > caster dead.
You say classes shouldn’t have counters to literally everything, but shamans are literally the most complete class by a margin, and that margin ain’t small to begin with.
btw look at the horde roaches just leeching together believing paladin is OP when their hero class was ripped holes into anyone and anything that moved between P2 and now. Absolutely priceless howmany of you are just straightup bad.
its about sending a message that it is quite frankly time to nerf shamans in a serious matter without giving them anything in return.
dude alliance literally flee before my might.
i don’t play enhancement atm though, i play tank.
tank shaman is who they run from, not enhancement.
if you read carefully, you’ll notice the aspect of the complaint that makes notes on HEALING, in my post, it very clearly has parenthesis specifically indicating that it is a problem for ENHANCEMENT shaman.
reading comprehension issues as well as skill issues i see.
big skill issue as displayed by most ret paladins, indeed.
could you imagine if they didn’t have HoJ to crutch on?
i’m legit wondering if half of them would just straight up miss all their attacks if their target decides to do something as cunning as moving out of their way, throwing the ret noobs into a fit of panic as they desperately keyboard turn in order to catch them.
i’m talking about you repeatedly stating that shaman has quote “infinite mana” which is just flat out false.
its exaggerations like this that causes nobody to take your gripes seriously, and the fact you have the gall to say something so absurd just makes people want to be mean to you out of sheer spite.
it is especially atrocious due to the irony on display, considering it is in fact PALADIN who borders on having infinite mana (if not literally infinite mana) which is what made them great healers in the vanilla version of the game.
every post you make has that “woe is me” vibe and its so obnoxious to read something like that because everyone here knows its just whining based on skill issues.
you literally could not comprehend that this might be the case despite people showing videos of a 1v3 where a ret pala solos 3 enemy players WITHOUT his bubble, like are you kidding, your class is obviously not in immediate need of buffs, as you continuously insist is the case.
you forget one thing though; what i said is true, and what you said isn’t.
that’s kind of an important difference.
you also don’t seem to know what gaslighting means, which is kinda funny.
you use the term all the time to describe things that aren’t gaslighting.
Blessing of Freedom, Blessing of Protection, Divine Shield - that’s 3 things right there, which are all arguably much better than decoy and grounding totems… oh and guess what, you got WF 100 yards aura in return for that decoy totem, so please just be quiet about that ok? i know what’s going through your head right now “BUT THATS A PALADIN COPY” so just cease. take away decoy from shaman and take away WF from alliance if you’re gonna try to argue.
Cleanse, Fire Protection Aura, literally any gear available right now with FR on it which is most of it.
defensive dispels.
bubble healing, lay on hands. - btw i will double down on the note that shaman’s “instant healing” is dog tier outside of resto NS heals.
again, plenty of mana issues, shaman spells insanely expensive, throw a mana burn and they crumble, silence them and their whole arsenal goes into lockdown.
earthshield snapshotting huh? in combat? no… earthshield ticks for like 300 when snapshotted and it can be dispelled.
HoJ. Squire pet.
its literally not.
it affects 1 target of the shaman’s choosing.
pfff… you don’t even know how the spell works and you gonna complain about it.
what a joke… love how you bolded it too, to try and emphasize how absurd it is… while getting it completely wrong.
again, skill issue is showing.
bwhahahaha ok. wanna trade 1 to 1?
skill
issue
showing.
bro actually just said LoH is inferior to riptide.
i can’t.
Still no fix to all the problems that have Bern seen sinds the start of phase 3
Port warrior threat
Rogue aoe tanking threat
Balance druid still dumster tier dps.
No shaman nerfs in pvp
If This is not fixed, some of us can’t play anymore, your forceing us out. Rerolling shut never be the solution! But if i can’t do my job with the tools i have, the tools need fixing!!
And no it not a F skill issue, try tank for players that know how to pharse in logs.
I’m rank 179, i can’t hold agro if i don’t get a solit leade and still people by the end of the fight is 95%+ og my threat.
See paladins go afk after just 3 secs in to the fight and Holding Agro afk for a minut is a “SOD april fulls” joke!!!
I agree with your two other points but balance druid is hard to balance. Right now a fully BIS PvP geared boomie will annihilate anything, if they get further buffed its going to be bad news for PvP.
We will have phase 2 all over. Right now they are flying under the radar since not many fully bis PvP geared boomies are doing PvP (hell no one is).
If they do get more damage (they already are hitting 3k SF crits atm) then their armor values need to go down by a lot and their self healing.
As far as Shaman nerfs, yes Ele “Immortal” build needs to get tuned down and even tank shamans. Paladin Bubble indeed needs a nerf - prot pala could also need some adjustments.
Potato / Wavé if you guys cant even agree with the obvious, I recommend that you just stop responding to each other.
Are we going Naxx during the winter holidays then? Since MC in the middle of summer was such a good idea…
I hate to sound cynical but this is becoming pretty dumb.
Well only one thing left to say - allow more than 20 people into the raids or this whole things breaks down. Guilds are having more and more issues and recruiting is hell.
https:/ /www.youtube.com/shorts/yYtsXJfJirI
https:/ /www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGMNpi7b5K8 (first three mins even you care to watch this)
https:/ /www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7fuTXUWEpI& (just watch the entirety, look at the mana)
You were saying how “false” the statement of “infinite mana” is? Literally the shamans in those 2 videos always sit above 80% mana whilst paladin has to mana pot to even stand a chance in the short.
or the fact that you guys cant handle the truth about shamans being OP since P2? Yeah I wouldn’t be suprised and would be pissed too if that was even true + defend the broken state of shaman too.
But shaman is? Don’t make people laugh, you have been spoonfed a majority of good runes to pretty much negate your “nerfs” from previous phases.
Meanwhile paladin is getting nerfed without any good runes/abilities to compensate.
Hilarious, get off your high horse, you spit asmuch untrue stuff as before.
From which point they aren’t? The shamans and hordes point? Dude play alliance for a month at 60, it is completely different to your illusions and gaslighting (“the act or practice of grossly misleading someone especially for one’s own advantage”).
Share a debuff with eachother, AW does too before you try to argue.
Hilarious, even if Decoy has been only watered down to single target of mans choosing, it is still better than BoF which is on the same CD. It soaks a melee hit and even after that you run at full speed and even more if wolves are tagging along. Being able to eat a spell (or more if it is on the same tick) every 15s isn’t better than a 5min CD Bubble which just gets screwed with by Balebolt? Yeah stop trolling.
let’s cleanse to oom, which is more likely than a shaman ever running oom.
Miles better than any heal a paladin has to cast, and still does more on that end. You just waste a GCD, paladins waste a GCD for casting a 1.5s-2.5s heal.
sounds more of a paladin issue than a shaman issue, you literally try to tell people shamans have mana issues in PvP when they get to have infinite mana thanks to SR on a min CD? Paladins have to crutch their mana or selfheals.
facepalm before they engage someone
count the classes that can dispel that, 1 for alliance.
pet aint OP as you and other people make it out to be, just makes hunters/rogues easier.
then you are clueless of the specs that paladins run in PvP, congratz.
boy am i gonna have a field day with this one.
ok dude.
lets start with the videos you linked; is this guy literally you?
you are yapping about the exact same issues, almost talking point for talking point.
is this you, or are you just one of his fangirls?
i actually went out of my way to watch the videos you linked in their entirety, and guess what the first thing i’m going to point out is?
well, first of all, its clearly not you, because this paladin seems to know how to play his class and guess what else; he openly admits that the shaman class COUNTERS the paladin class, and guess what; he still manages to clap them in many of the clips shown.
funny how that happens when shaman hard counters paladin.
the fights he lost was against resto shamans and the reason i know that is because they are using water shield (btw this is how they get their “infinite” mana, its a free cast spell and it generates mana when the shaman takes damage).
elemental shamans use LIGHTNING shield - which does NOT generate mana.
the problem this guy is having is that ret paladin by design is a burst class which cannot stand toe to toe in a battle of attrition vs. a spec that is designed to outlast their opponent through heals and tankiness.
he also notes that paladin has mana issues which adds to the problem (this problem is specific to RET paladin which guess what; if he was holy, he would have even more ‘infinite mana’ compared to the resto shaman counterpart).
if you are referring to resto shaman when you claim all shamans have “infinite mana” i can only say; WELL DUH, ITS A HEALER SPEC AND YOU ARE BEING DISHONEST - PALADIN ENJOYS THAT SAME LUXURY TO AN EVEN MORE ABSURD DEGREE WHEN THEY SPEC INTO HEALING.
notice how he stands a solid chance whenever he is fighting against ELEMENTAL shamans (whom do not have infinite mana outside of their instant casts which are only procced by flame shock ticks which he immediately dispels) and manages to beat a few of them??
i’m honestly astonished that you would show me these clips and use them as evidence for paladin being gimp, when clearly, the class designed to counter them is LOSING against them.
that shouldn’t even be happening, yet here we are, watching shamans getting clapped by a paladin who knows how to play his class.
like are we even watching the same clips here?
also where are the fights against enhancement which are oh-so OP with their “INFINITE MANA” and “CRAZY HEALS”?
he didn’t feature a single one which is extremely odd, and i dare take a guess as to why that is; its because enhancement is weak and easily clapped, because they do in fact NOT have infinite mana and their heals are in fact NOT crazy and it wouldn’t exactly serve his agenda to show clips of him outright winning against enhancement shamans.
its all “elemental this, wolves that, omg lava burst/purge” WHILE HE IS FIGHTING RESTO SHAMANS.
i’ll admit he makes some valid points about paladin issues about mana costs, but he takes it way too far when he starts whining about divine steed having the audacity to cost mana and suggests divine protection should not cause forbearance… which would effectively cause paladins to go up to 20 seconds of damage immunity when combined with divine shield, which is just extremely unreasonable, like flat out, not a chance dude.
i also find it comical that he mentions 300 mana cost spells and puts emphasis on the “THIRTEEN PERCENT mana cost!” like bro, maybe pop a flask of distilled wisdom if mana is such a problem for you, that’s 2000 mana and the effect persists through death.
there has never been an easier fix.
also, get this right; guarded by the light gets purged, meaning shaman is the only class you cannot win a mana fight against.
this is a no-brainer.
every other class you basically have your own “infinite mana”.
you are literally fuming about 1 class in the game having a counter your own source of so-called infinite mana and the only conclusion i can draw from that, is that you are unreasonable in demanding NOBODY should have the power to do that.
this is like if a warlock were to complain that there’s a class that counters to fear so he can’t just chain fear everyone to death in pvp while /dancing.
when you say “OP” you mean “OP against MY class” correct?
because that would be correct.
that is by design btw.
Shaman is designed to counter paladin in basically every way possible, and your idol here admits as much.
Enhancement shaman is.
Elemental could use a nerf.
Paladin does not deserve nor need any buffs.
again, the videos you linked literally prove that if you are skilled enough, you can win against the class that is supposed to hard counter you.
there is nothing more to say on that matter.
i’ll remain right where i am.
your arguments are easily refuted (read above) while you can’t seem to refute mine.
you and i are not the same in this regard.
sorry, i find it too humorous to dispel your misunderstanding of the term.
maybe look it up if you wanna know the definition.
i’m not your mom.
Good.
working as intended.
guess what; blessing of protection is supposed to be used on allies - not yourself - but i suppose that is lost on you as well.
in regards to its use for yourself, its supposed to act as nothing but a backup shield when your divine shield and divine protection are both exhausted, which can easily be the case if you are skillful enough to outlast the 1 minute forbearance debuff.
it god damn better well be since it costs a rune slot.
same way WF aura on druid is a million times better than shaman’s wf totem by virtue of taking up a rune slot too.
dispel it then… oh wait, you can’t do that
call for a priest… or a warlock…
so not only do you not know how decoy totem works, even grounding totem is a mystery to you.
grounding totem absorbs ONE HARMFUL SPELL and is destroyed in the process (many people have told you this before, but i guess it still hasn’t sunken through that brick head of yours yet).
the only way grounding totem stays up after a spell is absorbed, is if that spell doesn’t do any damage.
i’m willing to bet money that you find it overpowered because it has the ability to absorb your HoJ while remaining intact because HoJ does no damage, so here is a tip; USE LITERALLY ANY DAMAGING SPELL BEFORE YOU HOJ/REPENTANCE.
Listen, if you are too greedy to spend an exorcism or a judgement or whatever have you, or simply swing at it with your weapon to remove grounding totem from the equation, that is a SKILL ISSUE.
i wasn’t aware shaman could cast balefire bolt.
where can i find this rune?
stay on topic.
you are complaining about shaman right, but now you are bringing mage into the mix as if you justify your BS bubble, lmao.
dark rune, mana pot, distilled wisdom.
many ways to amend your mana issue.
too greedy to buy a flask or pots?
skill issue.
again, upon the realization you were talking about RESTO shaman, it better damn well be better than literally any heal a paladin could ever hope to throw out, UNLESS that paladin happens to be holy spec.
silence, mana burn, etc. does not go through bubble.
skill issue.
nobody does that btw.
you are fighting actual resto shamans if their earth shield heals for a modicum of health at all.
again, it can be dispelled as well.
2 actually.
warlock’s dog can eat it.
priest can dispel it.
crutch and OP.
completely unneeded by the paladin class.
absolutely cringe to give paladin a pet.
i guess that is a choice bad paladin players make.
if you don’t know the value of being able to catch rogues who vanish, you are simply bad at the game.
actually bother reading this time, besides you are trolling anyways by saying shamans aren’t even good and claim they have mana issues when there’s clearly stuff out there on youtube showing otherwise.
so do i and the remaining paladins that know how to use utility. good meme
so do I, the mere fact however stands that shamans are simply OP/Broken/Overtuned, something you couldn’t even understand even if you tried. but others understand it very clearly.
yeah and other shamans dont use it and still sit above or at 75% without water shield but
thanks to SR, good balancing.
except that shaman elementals and restos have mana until their HP drops to 0, and their mana bars wont move past 50-70%. If you ACTUALLY watched that part about the paladin and shaman mana bars in EACH duel you wouldn’t go on to write somuch .
In short: Reading too hard for you.
Anyone knows that you didn’t even bother reading stuff. He’s beating them with great difficulty, him being oom thanks to having to run Sacred Shield over Guarded of Light whilst any shaman he fought always had 50-80% mana.
a. if they purge it you can heal without downsides
b. since you forget to mention the part where Guarded literally slaps the pally with a 50% heal reduction, remind me where’s that on SR? you literally heal without downsides, paladins get gutted.
It literally has counterplay towards casters, hunters and other melee whilst needing to be completely CC’d to death thanks to insane healing, tanking, utility and damage.
So much for balance and “counter” classes.
Nor did shamans but here we are, elemental still having more fun compared to a large majority of classes. See the golden child of the SoD team? Literally shamans getting spoonfed.
you mean by lacking brain to read what i actually said? good one, you don’t refute, you ignore and mislead people. good job to you for anyone that falls for your baits.
“You were saying how “false” the statement of “infinite mana” is? Literally the shamans in those 2 videos always sit above 80% mana whilst paladin has to mana pot to even stand a chance in the short.”
You talking your grounding totem can absolutely eat multiple spells if they land the target at the same time, just try it out against balance druids. Starsurge into MF/SF is clearly exposing your false informations and delusions.
This requires some skill, something you won’t even have.
because you and others consistently whine about bubble, there’s counterplay ask your mage friends, if you had any. good thing you proved your stupidity.
Ele/Resto hybrids do thanks to spellpower/healingpower gear, and attempting to dispel it when it can be recast, yeah completely wasted.
It’s like you casting FS just for Priests/Paladins to cleanse it.
If the lock even decides to use his fel hunter, that’s why it aint on it, Succubus and Fel Guard exist. That purge on fel hunter is on a CD for your sake.
But giving shamans wolves ain’t cringe or OP?
If the builds goal is to stack crits from other attacks, especially if they can do multiple small crits to uno reverse it onto them by GCD’ing said rogue, would you truly need Consec? Or kill them before they vanish/stealth?
Only bad players cannot understand reckoning build, congratz you have been promoted from dirt eater to bad dirt eater.
No Potato,
Shaman can counter more than paladin, i don’t know how it work but for me who play Warrior I see more and more shaman who play in « tank mod », I dont understand how one class can heal/tank/damage and its always the same process flame shock + Wolf and kitting mod, sometimes i take two lava burst and its over. I can kill wolf for victory rush and heal me but for me actually you are in horde side clearly the « easy win class ».
The only way actually to survive is switch def use shield wall and go for 10 sc.
But its seems like play tank is the way to choose for pvp in SOD.
mans choosing, it is still better than BoF which is on the same CD. It soaks a melee hit and even after that you run at full speed and even more if wolves are tagging along. Being able to eat a spell (or more if it is on the same tick) every 15s isn’t better than a 5min CD Bubble which just gets screwed with by Balebolt? Yeah stop trolling.
.