Season of Discovery Class Tuning - 11 January

Because they are clearly overtuned in PvP.

You see, people in WoW “cry” about everything, however some of these “cries” are actually legitimate like in case of Hunter pets in PvP.

As for your question about how P2 will be? I think Hunters will be just fine with Bestial Wrath, +15% crit and a stun for pets, as well as getting the focus nerf undone with talents.

If anything - for P2 Hunters are probably one of the most dollied out classes out there exactly because BM talent tree is so good. It was pretty good for when pet did 25% of your damage, but it’s all kinds of mental when pet pushes 50%+.

If anything, you better pray Blizzard does not slap some more nerfs in P2 for pets, if not before. Because quite frankly - I don’t see how current pets will be anywhere close to reasonable in PvP with Bestial Wrath (let alone other pet talents) in P2.

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And what did I say!? Nerf them in PvP, not PvE. Right? Did you see I said wrote that? Just nerf them in BGs/PvP and everything would have been fine!

Yeah, so lets just remove those talents, becuse they will be nerfed down so they dont have any effect anyway, becuse it will be killing players in PvP and god knows, we cant have that! Lets nerf them down in PvE then aswell! Sounds kinda stupid to me but I guess its the right way to go! :wink:

NURF! NURF!

Ppl gonna cry about it all the time, so we gonna see more hunter nerf, everyone knows that, at this point we can just remove hunters, and then the next class who will be good in pvp! Thats the best solution to kids problems.

First of all, relax and drink some water, we’re discussing this calmly. No need to start foaming.

Secondly, Blizzard tries to avoid having too many special PvP rules and modifiers for classes and abilities in PvP. They have some, but it does not mean they want more.

And finally, Hunters aren’t struggling in PvE at all, they have the fat to slice off there and redistribute damage to allow alternative plays as well.

So given the above - they decided to do the sane thing and do a relatively small nerf to pets, while boosting alternatives a bit.

And quite frankly? You should be grateful they just did a 30%->20% to the BM rune and some focus regen. I think that is really the smallest nerf they could do in this situation.

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Thats why you coming in and saying that my points are nonesense? Yeah well, let me go a drink some water. Maybe next time you should read what ppl say instead of “this is nonesense” becuse of one bit that you think I am meaning.

But it make no sense to nerf them in PvE.

You mean the onces who already been nerfed? Yeah lets be happy we got a bit of a “buff” to the nerf guys!

Yes I am so gratefull for yet anoter hunter nerf! I will w8 for next week nerf! Probably something to be gratefull about then aswell! :upside_down_face:

But it make no sense to nerf them in PvE.

I believe what Blizzard tries to do there is a bit or a reshuffle. Currently everyone and their mothers goes BM, because alternative is just not on par.

They are trying to change that and it’s good they do for various reasons.

The nerf itself - Hunters can take, they are a top 3 DPS and a top ranged DPS at that and this nerf won’t change that.

That nerf they did to Lone Wolf and Chimera Shot initially was a mistake and they are slowly reverting it.

In my opinion, they should have buffed back Lone Wolf to 25% if not even 30%.

I don’t think you quite understand how easy Hunters got off with this one.

I fully expected BM rune to be nerfed to 10% damage/HP, it being nerfed only to 20% is a slap on the wrist kind of nerf.

This is also why I think they will inevitably do another 2 rounds of nerfs the least. So better be ready.

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Are you actually expecting Activision to work for their money? :smiley: The team leader said on X that the lack of heal paladin gear “was an oversight”, you have to imagine a whole bunch of new gen game designers, sitting there and sipping starbucks and every single one misses an entire spec of a class. Can’t even make it up :joy:

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Everyone always going the spec that is the best, look at Era, TBC, Wrath. It will always be like that, even if they would make survival the best spec, ppl will be survival.

What is those reasons?

But its still dont make sense to nerf a class in PvE who arent destroying everyone on the meters. Imagine nerfing elemental shamans right now, prob for good reasons right?

Really? Ppl where crying how much dmg they did, they could “2 shots” mobs, this nerf and/or the “buffs” they made will not be enough I belive, its just gonna gripple them more.

Yeah hunters should be gratefull! WOOHOO LETS PARTY BOYS! Yet another nerf and thank god they dident remove BM rune!

2 nerf? Its atleast gonna be 5+ more nerf coming to hunters, belive me :stuck_out_tongue:

Thankfully Hunters are VERY VERY far above Elemental Shamans as far as PvE goes.

Everyone goes best spec, but it’s nice when there is a close second viable alternative within a class that is not a meme. Balancing is not only between classes, but within a class to give more viable options.

Why?

Which Hunter players are asking for this?

You push this not even a week after the “double dipping” nerf. You dont even know how the change affected the average hunter, not the top parsers but yet you see it fit to push a narrower and narrower defined playstyle on us. A world buffed hunter('s pet) is not the default, can not be the baseline in the first place.

As you can clearly see theres A LOT of hunters who dont like to melee weave. There is no valid reason that should be a default. And thats where you are pushing us, otherwise you would possibly have nerfed every potential alternative (non-pet) into oblivion on day one. Care to tell us more about that stroke of genius?!

Stop making it mimic classic era hunter. Stop making it scuffed retail.
Or do, but if so please AoE cap mage to a maximum of 4 targets, to make it fair.

This is why I will support Druid mains over Hunter mains, didn’t see any Hunter come out straightforward and say the pet BS that left a stain on entire phase 1 “needed to go”.

I asked for this (maining hunter), more like begged. My pet name is literally NerfALLPets.

What on earth are you talking about when saying “the average hunter, not the top parsers”? BM hunter “rotation” is literally standing with autoshot and pet autocast on lightning breath. There - instant top 3 dps easy. If you wanna be really “sweaty” you can click your multishot button every 10 sec.

Besides, what’s the difference between being top 1 or top 4 dps in pve? You’re killing the boss as a group. No one is gonna pass on you just because you’re doing 115 dps instead of 140 when others are doing 75 dps.

BM is absolutely boring. I didn’t make a hunter to play Pet Simulator, but I’m coerced into playing BM because otherwise, I’m “just trolling” as the other specs aren’t nearly as good. As mentioned before in this thread, this nerf is likely (hopefully) not the last one to BM spec as the BM talents in p2 will make it even more ridiculous than it was before the nerf.

Thanks to this nerf (and slight buff to other runes) it’s legitimate to play other specs, finally. Hope they nerf BM further in p2.

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Serpent spread actually pretty good on aoe down trash or save mana if you dont use melee weave. Agree with rest tho

If i see i’m against rogues in a premade wsg, i breath a sigh of relief, easy win.

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I don’t really think people care about the “being top 1 compared to a top 3”. I’m following the hunter discord, since I’m a newbie hunter and honestly, the salt and memes are funny. The big issue people seem to be having is that this is the 13th nerf to hunters, was most of them warranted? For sure! But where are the nerfs/buffs to other classes? I agree that hunters doing a good portion of the damage in a dungeon/raid is fine, since it’s 3 dps specs. Which is why I’m also fine with rogues and warriors dealing a ton of damage. But it seems like they nerf a lot of PvE stuff on hunters, because of PvP issues. I still suck at PvP even though I play hunter, and that is 100% a skill issue so I can’t speak for that portion of the game. But seeing stuff like mages AoE down mobs at lvl 27/28 without much issue, while we are starting to “struggle” (not really, but we do have to drink/mend pet more now) with the same level of mobs takes away a good reason why hunters were loved to play.

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20%

Ouch!

I can 100% confirm this nerf is the result of complaints from PVP
 Typical!

Personal experience:
The other healers (Pally, Mage, Druid etc) aren’t good enough! Period!!

Is that the player’s fault or blizzard’s fault? Who knows, but every damn raid I do, I carry the healing. At the end of the raid, doesn’t matter if it’s pugs, or a guild run, I do 70 to 80% of healing. Without my “Priest” healing, we would fail at bosses like Kel and Aku
 Heck even the turtle boss would be near impossible without Priest healing.

People don’t realise, without the Priest healers doing what they can do, the raid would never be as farmable as it is
 All those who complained, you have just made the final part of this phase incredibly difficult. Not impossible, but difficult and people will wipe more and groups will fail more
 I am doing dealing with that stress.

Point is, YES, it hurts to see a 20% nerf
 But, its the same old point, just buff the other healers output instead of making US ALL WEAK!

I won’t be doing any more raids now until the next phase after this nerf
 I am not going to stress in raids because the output of everyone’s healing will be terrible. I can’t be bothered with wiping after a stupid decision like this.

Thank you to those who moaned about Priest in PVP, you just messed up the “Farmable” experience of BFD.

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So I’ve been thinking about the runes and the changes. I still think that the best short-term solution would’ve been to reduce pet damage against players.

However, hunters need a rune overhaul so what could that entail?

First of all, a shuffling of runes:

Kill Command moves to the glove slot, Beast Mastery to the chest slot and Cobra Strikes to the leg slot.

Heart of the Lion is removed as a rune and given as a baseline ability learned from a quest but without the personal hunter buff (or with in the future for better scaling, whatever)

This leaves the gloves with Chimera Shot, Explosive Shot, Carve and Kill Command. Two AoE abilities and two single target abilities.

Carve could deal 100% weapon damage when hitting 1 target as I’ve seen suggested before. Kill Command would be changed (see below).

Chest ends up with Beast Mastery, Master Marksman and Lone Wolf. A 4th rune for the chest would have to be added, probably melee focused (that fixes Mongoose Bite/Counterattack for instance), and all chest runes would have to be re-balanced if needed.

Legs would have Cobra Strikes, Flanking Strike, Sniper Training and Serpent Spread. Of these, Serpent Spread is the only odd one but the others seem fitting for the three main playstyles: BM, MM and melee. Sniper Training would have to be improved as it’s quite terrible right now though. Re-balance leg runes as necessary.

Now, as for Kill Command, it could be a 6s cooldown attack and become the BM spec’s “main shot”. It can benefit from Arcane Shot talents, which could make the talent that reduces AS cooldown useful, a talent that is otherwise trash.

It may or may not share a cooldown with aimed shot depending on balance at higher levels, as aimed shot won’t be picked for a BM hunter till we’re 51.

KC would then have your pet(s) deal damage to the target, similar to the way it works in retail. This attack could deal damage directly or directly with a DoT component.

The damage and type of attack could also change depending on pet type or family in order to balance it. For instance, cats would deal a bit less damage with it due to their 10% modifier while spiders would deal a bit more because of their 7% modifier. This makes the ability balanced across families and pets*. Additionally, the spider KC could deal poison damage or provide some kind of utility debuff instead of a cat’s, which could be bleed focused.

If things such as Dire Beast or a 2nd active pet are introduced, these would also KC but for a specific amount of damage and different effects (slows, debuffs, etc.).

Kill Command can have some kind of interaction on its own and/or with other runes like triggering/consuming Cobra Strikes, giving a chance to reset Dire Beast’s cooldown like in retail, etc.

And why all this? Because now you can reduce the damage of the Beast Mastery rune to 10%, the health to 20% and keep the focus at 80% or reduce it if necessary and instead you shift the power of the spec into Kill Command and Cobra Strikes, balancing each rune as necessary. Cobra Strikes could also be more involved than just making a pet special/KC crit after a hunter crit (any crit though, not just shots).

The % of our damage tied to our pets being 50% is fine, what is not fine is the zero input required from the player.

Of course, balance the other runes so that MM and melee are viable and competitive. Don’t dumpster a spec in favor of another. I want to be able to raid as a beast master.

*This would not be enough to make more families competitive. Spiders still have no focus dump despite being a DPS family, Scorpid Poison doesn’t scale at all and it should so that they can become competitive options, Screech needs to scale better so that bats/owls can be used as DPS options, Furious Howl is still bugged and needs to scale, other families need help (hyenas, crocolisks, crabs, etc.)

See my previous posts for more ideas if you like (Not Another Hunter Pet Post - #7 by Mattilda-firemaw).

Please, consider this feedback!

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It was an example but you couldnt even answer the question.

What is the reasons you where talking about?

Now just boost Lone Wolf rune or at least swap it with the pointless rune Sniper Training on legs.
Lone wolf and Heart of the Lion can’t be on the same run slot, since Heart of the Lion is a must have rune for raiding and overall dps.

They only needed to nerf them in pvp tho, not pve.

Most of the way up to 60 normally and even in dungeons in classic BM have been a very viable options and it will probably always be the best lvling spec out there, so if you went into SoD where the devs said it would still have a classic era feeling to it and though BM wouldnt be strong low lvls/low geared you are trolling.

This is just crazy talk, just becuse you wanna play another spec dosent mean they should nerf another one to the ground.

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Yeah and they could just have made changes for PvP (BGs atleast).

What I also said to my guildies, some classes isent even fun to play, I heard about druid runes before SoD came out, really wanted to play one but Lifebloom costing to much mana (not beeing the TBC one, they went with the WOTLK one) making it a spell you normally dont cast alot or at all.

Wild growth mana cost is insane, also there, dont using it due to that or you use it once per fight becuase you are oom otherwise


Paladin only really good Beacon of light, give them something more, make the healing more fun for them or whatever