Nice, weekly m+ whining thread.
So am i. 
. What is your argument again ?
Shamans are not meta. Reason being that RShaman exists. You won’t take 2 identical classes.
Your point ?
Ah… But it IS…
That is why we read coments like these:
If it wasent about performance then why ??
I told you why. Damage profile.
If you invite paladins and warriors. And all you see is them destroying the recount and being borderline inmortal…
Then you invite more !
And hunters. And warriors. And a boatload of rets. I mean… Raider io reflects what i see : rets and warriors under every stone.
And if you look at my stats, there is always 1 mage. He is my buddy. I always play with him.
imagine how dumb a business would be to design something only 5% can do and having fun in a video game?
nerfs clearly show that they want pugs to complete the content as well.
pugging is most likely the largest group in wow, focusing on rwf guilds and stuff like that just kills thr game
This 
please
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it’s also an issue with how content is tested.
Only the top 0.1% really test (more train) dungeon on beta, they give feedback, in majority it’s good for them, or they give feedback (and sometimes it’s not fixed for release).
When top 1% players the content and the top 10% or more, it’s big WTF. For the top 1% because it’s overtuned then frustrating, for the top 10% and more because the skillset is not adapted to the reward given by the content. Remember content is rewarding on your level. I see many people having issues to drop a 613 ilevel in dungeons whereas they are 611 and doing 7/8HM the second week. There is a balance issue.
Remind, i don’t care about the rewards themselves, i’d like to see a enjoyable game, and it’s the first time in 7 years i’m doing top 1% it’s that frustrating. It’s like the return of mandatory torgast in S1 of Shadowlands.
The difference in tankiness already is very much noticeable way below 12s, so yeah, you’re correct.
I don’t think they didn’t learn, they’re just in denial. What are they supposed to do? They introduced a specc in S2, it was OP af and still kinda is because it’s literally the only available specc that fills this specific role. Should they remove it? Because balancing it is probably not possible with it being the only support specc.
I mean yeah… kinda. I can get behind the idea maybe. Not sure… would need to see how that plays out. It was kinda fun coordinating defensives of the group in Everbloom +25/+26, ngl. 
That’s ofc not possible in a PuG but at a certain difficulty level, you should probably be fine with not being able to PuG it, like mythic raids.
Harder content completed = better gear reward. That’s how WoW always used to work. On the flip side though, I’m not a fan of raiding to be competitive in M+.
The gearing in M+ is just way to RNG for that. You literally have 1 chance per week with 3 options of a rather huge loot pool to get an upgrade.
The longer the season goes on, the less likely it is for you to get upgrades via the vault. In raids however (assuming you’re able to clear them to a decent boss count), your chances don’t diminish as much.
Yes, duplicates will drop but there will also be duplicates for your other raid members so you get higher chances of winning something other people don’t need. Plus you also have the vault.
That being said - M10s for Mythic vault really is a big stretch for the majority of the playerbase.
PS: I’m also not a fan of raiders having to do M+ for more vault slots and early easily farmable heroic gear to clear the raids faster.
In my perfect world those 2 endgame PvE modes would get separated to some degree so they don’t f* over the other one.
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I mean if you look at the world first race, Aug really did not dominate there at all, so it´s possible to make the specc playable but not mandatory. And for M+ if DPS was the limit instead of survival Aug would be in way less demand.
well, my highest so far had been a 15 (new system) so i also do enjoy coordinating defensives a tad, but this season it feels like we already had to do that in a +6, i can´t even imagine what it looks like in a 12. The main problem with it always is though that it excludes classes harsher than dps does usually, as some classes just can´t live without you bringing in all the externals at certain points.
Finding more efficient routes and pulls i think is more appropriate for the high-end than just finding a comp that has enough combined defensives and raidbuffs (as a dragon i won´t complain much, but zephyr is beyond broken).
I think they really need to get past that point if WoW is to be a thing in 20years. It´s been annoying in Classic already, but well, that was how it always worked back then. But then content was more time than skill gated and you technically could just run through the 2nd raid in all dungeon gear and be fine, jst that we all werre terrible at the game back then.
Nowadays though most of the players have a job and maybe even a family, so you cannot timegate content to anyway near the extent and expect people to still show up. And with the content tuned way more tightly it doesn´t really matter for most people timegating content by making it take very long to aquire the gear needed for the content is equally unacceptable.
I think the best path forward actually would be to just delete mythtrack, cap at herogear and make the hardest content reward cosmetics and titles only.
i think you had the point, 99% of the player base (including me which likes to top 1% in MM+) enjoy the game but wants to consume dungeons or delves (dungeons are better for me) with friends , 30/40 min content or 2h play session.
Timegating is only for the elite of WoW, why always brick majority of the playerbase because of elite people ?
We know that player with most of the gameplay time can be close to elite and it make false the dungeon score for example (hello 3k4 people on DF not doing a single kicks on s3). Then what’s the best option ? It’s a complex question.
I think the first easy option for Blizzard is to add keystone charges, this will reduce the frustration on deplete (especially due to wrong dungeon casting or bad luck). Or remove the deplete totally. If a player wants to try 150 times the same dungeon and fail it because he has no skill, what’s the point for the community ? Ok it make 150 group hard time, but i think majority of the deplete is not because key PL but because of those unluck, or some nasty players.
Now we fixed the deplete frustration a bit. Let’s talk about stuffing. Decouple Raid and MM+ stuff. Pb solved. Ok family players like you said won’t have time to stuff on raid and MM+. But regarding current situation, it seems Blizzard is not considering that, then we can change it no ? 
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I’m not following RWF at all so I didn’t know this.
I agree. Augs bring a lot of other utility like aoe Bleed dispels and a lot of aoe stops but the main reason is the tankiness, I think.
So DF S4 then. Haven’t played that. Stopped mid season S3 when my highest attempted key was a 26 and timed was a 25.
That’s true yes. Some classes have an easier time surviving than others.
I can agree with this statement. Finding new cool routes, tactics, skips, big pulls seems more fun than just… assembling the same 5 correct classes/speccs.
I’m not opposed to them getting past this tbh. I’d be absolutely fine with just comsetic rewards such as titles, mounts, and xmogs, maybe toys or something entirely new for high difficulty content.
According to Blizzard this is precisely why they have timegating though. So players with a busy RL don’t fall behind.
Though… I think timegating only exists to make players stay hooked for longer.
Didn’t read this before writing my comment above but yes, we seem to have very similar opinions on this matter.
This is what the game industry currently does for most multiplayer games. Short sessions rather than 4 hour slogs, yes. And that’s also why I think that raiding, sooner or later, will have to get reworked/revamped in order to keep up with the current Zeitgeist.
I might be wrong with this but the market indicates this imo.
Isn’t this basically because we have very low ilvl? Week 3 just started. The top ilvl will be 639, if i am not mistaken.
totally, the top ilevel is 639 if you max a piece from vault with 75 marks (up from 60). Crafts are 636 and require 90 marks (up from 60). And you loot 613 on dungeons.
In way yea, ~600 to start pushing hadbn´t been great, but it just highlights the problem.
The max will be 639 if you get full mythtrack, but if you do not you are hardcapped at 62sth, strailing really far behind.
And with gear being as impactfull as it is in this game, for someone clearing a 10 with 620 ilvl is much much easier than for people trying to catch up with 606-612, so it´s atm much of the “the rich get richer”, which sucks bad enough outside the game already.
And i do not think you should make myth gear only available to players that have the skill to basically push much higher than the key that rewards them. It just sucks not being able to play with friends that are not exactly on the level because they don´t have fun struggling along and do not even get a good reward at all right now in the midlevel keys to help them make things easier.
People are farming 629 BOE ilvl’s from trash from the mythic raid 
There’s even a good way to reset your ID fast (don’t kill a boss).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQDv2BBg7zY
Don’t get me wrong. I think it is a mistake to make myth-track so much more valueable than herotrack. In my oppinion the previous system with only 4 levels on mythtrack was way better.
But i have with a combination of friends and no pressure already done up to +9 in week 1. This week i have finished a +10 so i am looking forward to opening my vault today. I am currently 612 ilvl. Highest gear equipped. Nothing min-maxed. I do not think 9-10 is inaccessable. You just need to get some people who want to run a weekly no leaver. The NW +9 took about 95 minutes. The Arakara +10 something like 45.
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What you said about those caps is interesting, because i had twice the same feeling.
First when you are 608 and trying to time 7 keys to access to 610 ilevel stuff (more doable now season really started, but very hard week 1 compared to all seasons since BFA for me). And the second one is the 620 hardcap where Mythic raid people will continue to push and the other will need to wait for weekly chest
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The biggest problem with M+ this season, that everyone gets handed in +2 key and they can be boosted in pugs to even +11 (from 9 for example in GB if people farm gear). If anything, they should’ve made more keys for levels, not less. 80% of people should now own the keys they do in all levels, starting from +2
I added another possible thing Blizzard can implement to improve community quality on dungeons
for the group disband, add an option to propose vote for stopping a dungeon, and if someone leave the group without this vote OK, 1h penalty with increasing penalty if the player do it too much over days.
Then you join 3 man"friends" group with an obviously hopeless run who are expecting a free carry and will veto any vote to disband.
give it couple of weeks and see particiaption ratio plummet once poepel realise majority will never clear +10 .
way to kill favourit endgame for majority of playerbase.
guess blizzard decided that those who want it should just be buying boosts.
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and thats the point.
blizzard realised that there is no other way to force people into mythic raiding then by decimating m+ .