To be honest, Raiding is also in the same situation.
In an 8 boss raid, I get that the last couple of bosses are only for the “elite”.
But the first few bosses, that are not that big of a deal and quite accessible… those are bared from people because of the insane logistics of having to run a Myth Progression raid and the commitment it takes.
Only because Myth Raiding is not Flex. And I think that M+ is in the same situation. It would change NOTHING to the high-end guys because they would still min-max the hell out of super challenging bosses.
But everyone else would get instant access to myth trak gear of the first bosses. And maybe, some of those people get “baited” to actually go through the insane process of getting CE. Which on the long run, its good for the high end guilds.
Yes, and on a sidenote: people always say mythic raiding is different from M+, and that it can’t be pugged because the tactics require voice comms blah blah. But in truth, M+ also has complex tactics but since people are free to practice it as many times a week with as many groups they want, the community quickly gains collective experience.
If M raiding was as accessible as keys, within a few weeks every group would converge to the same generic tactics and assignments. Especially now when most +7s require more coordination, practice and individual skill than the first mythic boss.
M+ in high level require also vocal to be in sync, there is fewer info when the group has massively train and it’s barely the same dungeon everytime, but it’s expected too
Yeah but anything beyond the loot cap is not “part of the game” so to speak. It’s just progress tracked in a scoreboard but it’s not properly designed or balanced by blizz. You’re not competing against the game, but against other players.
The raiding equivalent of that would be if M raid had an uber mode that doesn’t drop loot.
Somehow they can exist without “keys”, without “timers”, scaling down after someone leaves mid-run. And you get loot every time. And somehow people finish them most of the time. And if you don’t? Well, too bad - go again. No biggie.
But the Toxic Elitist Seasoned Hardcore No life Cultists will come and defend the current M+ iteration as THE BEST possible scenario.
Do you guys remember when you had to… re-run a depleted dungeon key to “re-fill it”? That was the times! Back in my day we had to go uphill the entire dungeon! Both ways! With wind blowing in our faces. And running the entire zone after dying. And we loved it!"
it’s why i proposed QoL enhancements for MM+ to reduce frustration, like be more fair on the deplete model with player life.
The delves loot is NM loot , not HM one, then note sure we can compare, until they change +11 delves to loot HM ones
The problem is, the dungeons aren’t really fun. There’s too much unavoidable damage. The step up from heroic > m0 > m4 is too big. And it’s a sweat fest. Fort mobs are wrecking tanks, tyran bosses have too much health and one wipe is key over.
The death penalty just makes the timer too tight and just encourages early disbands. Or even late disbands, and not respecting your time.
People seem way more toxic as a result.
If you tank now and any tiny mistake it’s “tank, wtf are you doing?”
If M+ isn’t meant to be puggable, don’t allow groups to be listed on dungeon finder. And if they’re not meant to be puggable, it’s a pretty dumb plan. You’d have thought blizzard would want to retain players.
The future of mmos isn’t hardcore guilds with people playing 24/7. It is puggable content that people drop in and out of.
ok, and i had 5 maps and sure done less than 20 delves over my chars (as I said, I’m in a lowkey maintenance mode). You are just unlucky. OR I’m lucky. IDK, IDC.
yea, that really baffles me about how they changed m+ this season. DF S3+4 where absolutely great and motivating to play, and now we are at a point where as someone running M+ with friends any other day i barely want to log in anymore.
Really can´t imagine any returning/new players getting into M+ at all, and if they fix it later on in the expansion it´s too late and everyone is gone already.
If I wanted to play something with a low probability of winning and to be annoyed on a regular basis, and it have lots of time wasted with no progress, I’ll just go back to league lol
that’s the point, there is a lack of progression due to difficulty, both in terms of stuffing in MM+ AND challenge for the top 1% i’m part of. We have just impression to waste our time
Let’s make delves that hand out the same level of gear easy, but then the dungeon equivalent which hands out the same level of gear, really hard for pugs.
That’s what Delves are for though. I’d imagine Blizzard will be getting massive activity in Delves. I wouldn’t be surprised if they slowly increase Delve loot levels, especially if they become more popular than m+.
People here were constantly (and still are) going on about how M+ is Hardcore endgame designed for God’s chosen ones+a friendship so powerful Shueisha would make a manga about it. They acted like m+ was never designed for ordinary mortals trying to PUG.
Now Blizzard have pretty much made it like that. Perhaps they do read the forum.
I can imagine a large amount of people who do M+ couldn’t care less about having BiS gear, and what they actually want is challenging content which is FUN and which doesn’t waste their time.
I can imagine many people don’t actually want to be stressed and sweating through content, which has a high chance of failing and wasting their time, for an RNG chance to get slightly better gear. And once you have the gear, no one cares anyway.
It feels like they are making content for the streamer with a 10k USD setup, streaming to 3 people all day.
