+8 dropes the game gear that +7 , +9 drops the same crests as you get from maps in dvelves.
only doing +10 means you will have better gear then world content players.
whihc means there is 0 point doing anything below +10 or mythic raids.
there is basicly dvelves then jump stright to mythic raiding and m+
**nothign in between is worth doing. **
whole reward structure is broken atm.
Are you a Knight for the 0,1% players?
Wake up you are a bad player to in this world. So stop defending this broken stuff
they say that start of every season.
Season just started. Let it play out. dont ask for nerfs already.
i dont want internet points or whatevs. I just like how hard it is.
harder than DF by alot yea but DF was too easy
Nerub Palace HC feels like Normal at best.
The Casuals can play that singlehandedly.
Mythic is for a smaller Playerbase. It was desgined to accomodate Hardcore players, always was and will be.
Not everyone needs to do it. Not everyone wants to do it, me included. Too Time consuming.
Casuals got their content choices, and Hardcore Players theirs.
Let everyone have a share
its even funnier when the same 0.1% admit how ridiculisu the tuning there is 
he is represending the worst kind - peopel who will never be actual top 0.1 % but like to bully anyone who is below him in statistics.
you have already some old MDI players who openly opt out and plan to focus on other things because they know they will not be in top 4-8 and see how ridiculous tuning is.
Im not.
I think DF was too easy
you are a toxic player i get that.
no point in insulting because its just not true
Harcore Players Push M+…
Are you slow in your head?
Give Casuals the gear from Mythic doesnt make them to Mdi players… But they will play the game long enough and run +10 keys… Easy as that
truth hurts ?
There isnt Toxic in the truth
And btw… M+ cant be easy you can push the key.
you are getting defensive. argue constructively
not talking about MDI
MDI is still far above for all of us.
Going to add my voice here as a healer that consistently got KSH every season in DF, in pugs.
It feels extremely tightly tuned. I feel that every season should be a challenge, but not like it’s now. I understand we have low secondaries so stuff might feel harder because of that, but they can easily tune stuff around that.
Healing in high keys is extremely stressful and whereas before I could grind out the highest tier crests in OK keys (8), now I need to time 9’s.
Even at ilvl 618 keys of that level feel very unforgiving, mainly because of the affix that detracts 15 seconds.
As for loot, same as crests, I would feel it’s fair to lower myth track to 9 and highest tier crests to 8. Make it so that completing a 10 gives myth 2/5 and a portal on the first completion.
The fact raid is so easy creates some real disconnects though, people feel they should be able to do well in keys, because of their raid performance, and then feel down when they can’t do it.
This is not good for the game, frankly I don’t care if the 0.1% agree with this or not, because they are exactly that, 0.1% of the players they are the smallest fraction of income for Blizzard by virtue of the group size, and if they vanished tomorrow, a new 0.1% would form out of the people that are left.
If people are complaining about M+, whether they are good enough or not is irrelevant, they will stop paying, and this is not good for anyone.
The Challenge needs to start in +11 Keys
I dont say make +10 free loot but for now under 5% of the players run it.
Push it to 50% and you have a good game designe.
For people who say its to easy, just run higher…
The challenge needs to be a smooth even curve throughout, remove the jump at +12s, and aim it so that +10s are about the same challenge as +15 was in DF, and bingo you have solved the problem.
Those 0.1% can just run a +20 instead of a +14, it makes no difference, but it makes people feel less bad and most importantly, keep paying their sub fee.
Remember, wow was at it’s highest in popularity when it was easy, and the great thing about m+ is it can be both hard and easy at the same time, by virtue of different key levels.
This is bull… pure BS…
So you want to dictate what a whole game mode, of which 2 MILLION keys are completed per week…
Based on a couple thousand dudes raiding Mythic ?
Are we insane here or what ?
Absolutely not. There are orders of magnitude more people playing M+ than raid. If ANYTHING it should be the other way arround.
(A) You do understand that “skill” has nothing to do with “casual” or “hard-core” right ? The divide is just the ammount of hours you play. Nothing more, nothing less. And game-mode difficulty should be ONLY about skill.
(B) In M+ the term “top player” has no meaning. There has NEVER been a reward for playing high keys. And it dosent matter at what key level you put Myth track vault gear… for pushers its irrelevant.
And this is true. But it determines WAY too much how the rest of the game is balanced. And it should not.
But why the wait ? Why do we need to wait to see how it “plays out” ? Nerf them already. And in S2 with a bit more gear inflation they can buff them again…
And that is not mentioning the difficulty divide. NW on Tyranical has the worst completion rates of ANY dungeon ever seen. Even at its original SL S1 launch. Meanwhile you got MtS that is a joke and a cakewalk… This is not supposed to be like this… ALL dungeons need to be ~ equally hard for the same difficulty.
TBH whether we like it or not, 99% of people in this game will probably never clear high keys with the current scheme in place.
This will probably result in a mass sub drop off when people find that +8s just don’t cut it for them anymore.
The only solution is to make keys easier, especially when compared to the raid, which drops better loot than the keys, and is easier.
Blizzard will wait and wait and wait.
Players will unsub and then there will be the surprised pickachu face and no one there see it coming.
Story of Blizzard all the years
I honestly don’t understand why they made keys harder in the first place.
There was nothing wrong with the system we had where doing a +20 unlocked the portals. Everyone from casuals to MDI players found their wall, and the content included everyone.
Now no-one is happy because they can’t even get the max gear from the vault, while they can from the raid.
100%. Pushers arent happy. Normal players arent happy… nobody is…
In contrast to DF where the only real complaint were the affixes. They got rid of them now, but they messed up with things nobody asked for.
They should ditch this key level squish. And put things as they used to be in DF.
As for gearing… increase the cost of upgrades by 10x and DONE. Time-gated just like they wanted.