I don’t think we should equate writers with their characters. There are plenty of dark fictions with deplorable characters written by people who do not share the values of their creations.
This is just my opinion but I think the reason people are more inclined to explore heavy concepts like racism or genocide in these games is because there are no minority groups in this universe that are like the minority groups in our reality.
Despite all the wars and war crimes committed in the Warcraft universe, the cycle of violence and karmic punishment hits everyone more or less equally. In real life, systemic oppression and the violence as well as the lack of stability it leaves in its wake are spread out far more unevenly.
Authors of their own settings / literature can’t really be compared to roleplayers in this regard. Authors can write what they like, and people can choose not to purchase their book or engage with their material.
Roleplay however is a cooperation effort – and bringing unpleasant/inappropriate themes into roleplay on a server that’s home to both minors and queer people is deeply inconsiderate of others, particularly when many are playing this game in order to forget about real world prejudices.
If a roleplayer brings real world homophobia / sexism / whatever into the game, yes I am going to equate them with it, particularly if they’re entirely unapologetic.
Not to mention it’s also against ToS. So I will equate them with it, on top of slapping them with a report as well.
Maybe I’m misundestanding, but that to me sounds like there’s even less reason for exploring those concepts.
The only (acceptable?) reason I can see people bringing in those topics is someone living vicariously through their character and having them overcome the problems the player faces IRL and is unable to. Otherwise, why include it? I know there’s quite a few problems with asking why something is part of a character, but homophobia/racism is not one of them. Why do you want to include them? What’s there to explore - how a racist character reacts to a POC character?
I think the point Nera is making (and he can feel free to correct me) is that hating orcs is fine, but bearing prejudice toward a dark-skinned human / elf / whoever isn’t lore-accurate or appropriate. Copy/pasting real world racist terms and sloppily applying them to in-game races is also in poor taste.
Sure, agreed. It is why I largely disliked the initial lore pieces about black orc (true horde / blackrock horde) = bad, and black dwarf (dark iron) = bad. It pranced too much on the border of IRL racism excused into lore.
It is; read above.
Dwarven prejudice against Dark Iron dwarves
Troll prejudice against Farakki trolls
Orc prejudice against peons
Orc prejudice against green skinned orcs
Blood/High Elven prejudice against trolls
Draenei racism against broken
Human hostility towards Forsaken
Any race’s hostility towards fel-wielding beings (Demon Hunters)
Once again, translating real life prejudices 1:1 into the game is never okay and no one should really want it. What we are talking about it is whether lore appropriate prejudices can be used tastefully in roleplay.
Someone roleplaying a hotheaded human with an irrational hatred for orcs does not necessarily mean they are trying to translate real life racist beliefs into a game.
Someone roleplaying a grizzled orc who, though recognizes the power of female orcs on the battlefield, does not think female leadership can be as strong male one does not necessarily mean they are trying to translate real life misogynst beliefs into the game.
Racism is present in the lore. It is not a good thing. It does not and should not be defended. Depicting it, however, does not have to mean endorsing it. Playing a knock-off Garithos while making references to OOC real life issues is in very poor taste and does not add anything of value to the game or to the roleplay scene.
Maybe the issue is that I use racism as a term for what we have in the Warcraft universe? Perhaps we should re-label it as speciesism? To differentiate it from what we experience in real life.
Not sure how else to make it clear that the argument is not in favour of copying the issues of our world and transplanting them into Azeroth without change.
I think you’re getting wires crossed, we’re not really talking about specieism etcetera.
Those above aren’t all rooted in racism either, DI dwarves have been villainous for a long time so the prejudice is justified (though, wonder why Blizzard thought making dark irons evil was a good idea early on).
As Loras said, when we talk about racism in these topics, we moreso mean racism towards dark-skinned humans, elves, and gnomes.
Why not?
And again, when we mean racism, we don’t mean orcs vs green skinned orcs, or dwarves vs dark irons etc. It’s anyone vs POC human/gnome/elf.
I feel like again, if you need to use “i hate women” or,“i hate gays or those dark skinned folk” as a way to generate conflict, you arent very creative.
So many other ways to do it that doesnt make you look weird OOC.
I have explained previously that though I do not oppose these concepts being explored in the game, not even the ones that cause me discomfort, but I do think that due to the fairly sanitized nature of the game and the general audience of it (roleplaying community included), it is best avoided in most cases as it usually generates OOC tension instead of an IC one.
I have also added that other fantasy mediums, such as The Forgotten Realms within the Dungeons & Dragons universe, are better suited for tackling such issues in a roleplay setting.
I’m still open to discussing possible ways to include heavier subjects in roleplay because it really can add a lot of depth to scenarios but, as I said, I recognize that it’s hard to write about such things in an objective manner and there will likely never be a server-wide consensus on what exactly is too much to tackle or too close to real life as everyone has a different tolerance point.
Looks at the Wrath story in Coldarra / the Nexus. Malygos + Keristrasza = very uncomfortable vibes.
After slaying his consort and luring him into battle with elements of the red dragonflight, Keristrasza is captured by Malygos, who makes her his new consort. Malygos abused her constantly, branding runes into her body and using his powerful magic to bend her will, until she finally went insane.
