You’re great at interpreting other people’s words the way you THINK they were meant, aren’t you?
Unreasoned labelling. If I insist on my point of view as a woman being taken seriously, I’m not automatically hardcore feminist. In contrary. I’d wish women wouldn’t need to go hardcore everytime they want their needs, emotions and convictions to be acknowledged.
Just because you as a man can’t understand my point of view, doesn’t make it less valid nor do you have the right to tell women what they can or can’t feel is inappropriate. Sexualisation is not “fine” for many of us and you declaring it just shows how you, as a man, try to speak on our behalf.
Where did I say that? You really need to stop mistaking forum posts for reading coffee grounds. Your ideas about my intention for writing doesn’t equal my intention for writing. And just because YOU want to portray me as a hardcore feminist in front of everyone else doesn’t mean my opinion must be the one of a hardcore feminist.
I wasn’t talking about muscular bodies, I was talking about half naked female characters. Usually dressed in erotic lingerie. Where’s the erotic lingerie for male chars? Can’t see any. It’s a one sided dressing option mainly meant to show a female body’s “full potential”. Substitute for not having an all naked transmog option. And may I remember you of this:
The reaction of the male audience as well as the dev team up on stage speaks volumes. Nothing more to add there really.
The big problem is that Blizzard is liberal. Not lefty. Liberals are basically center-right, but they love the aesthetics of progressives. Liberals will do things for the appearance of solving the problems, while deliberately evading the problem itself.
The problem isn’t hot girls or sexual innuendo in the game. The problem is the unprofessional work environment. Castrating the game is to maintain appearance of action being taken while the corporation itself remains the same. This is why liberals are center-right - they will maintain the status-quo whenever they can.
Leftists do not care much about appearance, they care about improving the material conditions of the people. In the case of Blizzard, that would mean ensuring workers have power and safety at the work place, they can argue for their own labor conditions (like no crunch, better management). Ideally, in a leftist corporation, the workers will vote on who their managers and CEOs should be. That’s not gonna happen, by the way.
I live in Bristol, the statue that was taken down here wasn’t as simple as a change of peoples opinions, it has been “under discussion” for years, the council has been asked to repeatedly to remove that statue and remove the name from streets, building and schools where that person (who was actually a leading figure head in the slave trade not simply a supporter) was being memorialised everywhere in this city to the point of reverence and celebration. The council replaced the plaque on the statue to reference his slaver trader history…
Currently the statue is in one of our city museums, along with placards from that protest and the full story of the statue and why it ended up being taken down and thrown in the river that day.
Yeah… The guy who was on the album cover is suing for CSE after recreating the album cover every couple of years for 30 years obviously it’s not about the money or anything.
Many people don’t understand the point of statues. Statues are propaganda, their goal is to glorify. Always. So if you have statues of slavers, streets named after murderers or whatever, that means your community glorifies that behavior. This is why it’s alright for statues to be removed, streets to be renamed to more adequately reflect a community’s current culture. Statues are not about preserving history, they are about glorification of ideals.
In the US, many of the conservative statues were made between 1920 and 1960, not to preserve history but with the specific intent of opposing the equal rights movement. The statues themselves often a product of organizations like Daughters of the Confederacy do not serve to preserve history, but to explicitly change it and make it more palatable. There are people who believe the American Civil War wasn’t about slavery… because Confederates have spent a lot of time changing history and using statues as a part of that goal.
In Bulgaria, in my city we have a very famous communist monument. The communist regime has been declared criminal here, but trad stans defend the monument thanking the communists, as “a part of our history”. Nah, it’s not a part of our history. It’s a propaganda piece designed to push communism. A lot want it removed. Some want it to remain so it can get defaced continuously, cuz that’s funny. It’s a monument portraying heroic, struggling soldiers, it’s clearly a propaganda piece.
The thing with cancel culture is that there are no limits. Some people are now asking to remove Churchill and Lincoln statues. Yeah, the ones that fought against awful things.
Well, he at least gave the Brits the will to fight to the bitter end, which was nice. If he had been replaced by someone who wanted to surrender and to cooperate with mister funny mustache that would have also been bad.
What I also should insist on is MALE posters in this forum having a habit to spam reply to exclusively my statements labelling me or trying to stereotype me while there are a couple of other posts representing the exact same opinion I have being harassment…
If - he - unreasonably labels me for being a woman with my own opinion speaking on my behalf about sexualising women being fine, I can call - him - out on - his -behaviour. Simple as that.
There are specific items with lingerie skin. A bunch of posts and even entries on wowhead even explicitly are naming them as such.
Your opinion. Mine is different. I have no issues with sexy clothes but sexualisation and sexy clothes aren’t the same. Sexualisation means that you reduce someone to a sexual imaginary. And minding the dress code of many famous female lore characters, there is at least reason for talking about it. Sylvanas Windrunner and Valeera Sanguinar are proof of it. And there are many more.
With Bristol, the main arguments are that, that person was a philanthropist who donated a lot of money for schools which are still in use and his money basically built the city so we should should grateful to him and white wash over where his money actually came from. There are other problematic names in the city too but not as prolific as that one.
Things are changing though.
Churchill was an awful person though… He did terrible things, he wasn’t just “the guy who saved Britain in the war” he was a terrible person.
This starts to turn into bashing instead of a discussion. So just shoot straight and tell me the issue. But that’s usually how reading goes. I read something and interpret it. With a bias. Everyone has a bias. I think my bias is very clear. Correct me on it if I’m wrong. It’s more productive than passive aggressively giving back.
I didn’t label you because you insist on being taken seriously as women. I label you hardcore feminist because you claimed there to be a patriarchy and from the general behavior I observed from you. I might be wrong. If I am, then just tell me so. If you were a moderate “normal” feminist, you wouldn’t claim there to be a patriarchy.
I mean, just clarify your views. It’s really simple as that.
See, that’s why I labeled you an hardcore feminist. Sexualization is part of our society and culture and there is no problem in expressing so. The question is, how that is being done. Now you can go and reread what I wrote but I basically gave my opinions why the witch hunt for sexualized content is idiotic but I also said that I actually think that the Bro’s Ho Ho Ho stems from the bro culture at Blizzard and thus adds to the bad connotation. Neverthe less, I think it’s funny, which isn’t a reason to keep it in the game.
To repeat: The issue I have with the witch hunt on sexualized content is because it’s hypocritical.
I talked about male bodies simply because the discussion always is about “objectivying women” while the same is being done with men on the same level and no one bats an eye. Was a bit offtopic though since I meant it in a general way.
I told you, I dislike those cloths too. I think they come from nerd fantasy. See your video. Afrasiabi and friends are idiots.
I’d like to have proper armor on female characters, it’s more immersive. I don’t think it’s sexy at all not do I feel offended. It’s a god damn game. I don’t play it for it’s pornographic content. For me, it’s just fantasy and people go crazy in fantasy.
You also find a lot of sexualized men in fantasy, e.g. conan. I guess it’s human nature to like half naked bodies.
If I were Blizzard, I’d see what the community says to those transmogs and act accordingly. If I were Blizzard, I wouldn’t have added them to begin with.
Also google “male bad word that starts with s male mog”.
Imo, as long as people know Churchill’s history, especially how he used his own journalism to lie about the atrocities committed in Africa, maybe his statues can stay. In his current cultural understanding, his statues are kind of a lie.
We also have a lot of lies around WW2. Many leftists and communists stan communist Russia for opposing Germany in the 1930s. But… Russia almost allied with them. It really came down to countries like Bulgaria. Germans did not let Russia simply have them, so Russia had to oppose them in order to get them. On many principles Russians agreed with Hitler’s regime and this major opposition didn’t come from ideology, but from petty politics. And yes - my country was a Hitler ally for some time, and that is treated as a footnote in our (very Russia-influenced) history.
I feel like sharing random facts. XD
PS: This post contained so many banned words on this forum, I had to make major edits xD
That’s probably because the main story/lore writer is a bdsm, cuckold and femdom fan. While there is nothing wrong with liking such things, they should not influence his work.
That’s another issue. You can’t speak properly. You can trick the system with stuff like fk and poop but you get banned. You will get silenced though. But at least, no one is offended.
Don’t get me wrong, I know what he did in middle east, ie leaving many people in that colony to starve to death. I also know he made a lot of wrong decisions that cost a lot of lives, not only during WW2.
And that’s why I’m against cancel culture, it’s because we’re not white or black, we’re just gray at different degrees.
With those arguments, we should also be removing FDR statues and many other more. Should I dare to say : we should remove every single statue at this point.
Not gonna quote the whole wall of text, since I know aboot what happened, because Germany needed Russians ressources. I also know that winners get to change the history favoring them, because let’s hide wrong actions.
Reducing? Treating sexual portrayal as a “reduction” is kind of a neopuritan way of viewing the world. Greek heroes are literally a glorification of the human body, with sex appeal being an integral part of their portrayal. You cannot imagine how horny Greek sculptors were, they were molesting their own statues. This was kind of considered an elevation.
Agnes Sorel, King Charle VII’s wife, would walk around with her boob out, and was portrayed repeatedly in that fashion. Sexualization is not necessarily reduction, unless the viewer is kind of misogynistic.
That’s well said (I won’t comment too much on the political part tho) but I disagree about the use of leftist here. While true leftist people should try to care about things like unionization they currently don’t. They lean heavily towards hardcore woke ideologies. They are “lifestyle-leftists”.
The issue I have is that for me those changes just seem to be a smoke mirror for the actual problem.
Wokism is very liberal, and many leftists criticize it, because it shifts the focus away from class struggle. The core idea behind everything woke is that capitalism can solve all issues, which is inherently against everything leftists are all about. It’s really hard to lift the veil if a person considers liberals and leftists the same thing. There are many neolibs who call themselves “leftist” because they enjoyed Life is Strange or whatever. Wokeism is the appearance of fixing race issues… without doing anything to fix race issues. It’s just white people feeling good about how great they are.
There is this term I’ve seen around “German guilt pride”. It’s basically some Germans feeling good about how guilty they feel about the Holocaust, gaining the moral high ground through the guilt they feel. “Hey guys, we feel so guilty, aren’t we great!” Same thing with wokeism. It doesn’t do anything.
No one in here was bashing anyone until you started bashing me for being a “hardcore feminist”.
So, I am the one being passively aggressive when you apparently have been “observing” me for a while on this forum, put together a pretty little idea about who I am and what my views are and developed a solid antipathy against me based on that, your subjective, idea without having looked me in the eye once in your life to then attack me calling me a hardcore feminist for objecting your view on sexualisation. Please forgive if my definition of “passive aggressive” looks a bit different.
Anyways, I don’t have to clarify my views to you or anyone to make it easier for you to decide, whether you should attack me or not. Simple as that. If it burns under your nails to stamp a certain label on my forehead for objecting your views, then you are basically acting like those forum users, who try to explain every opposing view point with the opponent being a “woke”, “liberal”, “racist”, etc. And we already have a prime example of that in this thread again already.
I beg you pardon? What society / culture are we exactly talking about? The one that has been oppressing female rights for centuries? The one that was founded on women not having any rights to vote, get a job, decide over their own body or who they mary? Believe it or not, but the culture / society you’re talking about pretty much started out as a Western equivalent to conservative Islamic countries and is far from being ideal in regards of preserving a woman’s dignity, so please excuse if I find your argument a bit troubling.
They indeed should not. I’m not bringing my sex toys into office either to put on exhibition for all my colleagues to see. Well, I’m working in home office, so I theoretically could, but I think you understand what I mean.
If reducing women to sexual features wasn’t a common problem when it comes to harassment and abuse then I would agree. But we are talking about a company that has been absolutely insensitive about female players and employees in the past. With according consequences regarding the general behaviour in Blizzard’s work AND ingame community. And I don’t think a topic woth the title “Sexualisation is fine” is exactly solving any issues there. Especially if minding that some players with a 2 + 2 = 5 sort of thinking will probably translate it to “Sexism is fine”. Also, I don’t like how you bring politics into the discussion.
obviously it’s not about the money or anything.