Shadow Priest Beta Changes - Void Form

Classes Priest
1

Hello everyone.

A while ago, I was commenting in this section regarding of Shadowlands beta Shadow Priest - What I believed the most (and I still do, but due to the new rework for Shadow Priest, it is kinda “not possible” to be delivered anymore) was to buff Void Form haste gain back to 1% as it originally was - instead of 0,5%. With Void Form being completely changed, it “removes” the game style I personally prefer (and many other people do) and that is that full, juicy stacking Void Form. With that no longer being a possibility for Shadow Priest, I think there are few adjustments that need to be made and specifically for “Legacy of the Void” talent.

Legacy of the Void is supposed to deliver you the gameplay of original Void Form that we have now, but with that squish, it will not if there are not adjustments made to it. I understand a lot of people dislike Void Form, which is fine, because that is their own opinion and they simply want Void Form gone, but there are also people like myself that love Void Form and want to stick to the originality of it as much as possible, and that is why the Void Form with Legacy of the Void talent needs the stacking haste buff - whether it is 0,5% or 1% (preferably 1% of course), but it won’t function well without it, as that is the essential part of it. Another thing is - what is the potential you can reach with it? Is it 20 stacks? 25 stacks? I honestly think that going over 30 stacks is what would make it feel “right” , so my suggestion is to make the insanity drain slower, if we want to reach the full potential of it. Else, I do not see much point in this talent, no one is gonna feel the right touch of the Void Form if it’s gonna last for 20 stacks, that’s just not right.

I play Shadow Priest for over 10 years and I personally think and believe Void Form is the best thing we have for Shadow Priest so far.

Please, adjust things for Void Form more closely and carefully, so we can actually feel it still has huge impact, whether you choose Legacy of the Void talent or not at all. I see this rework is supposed to give us the balance and flexibility people want, but if that is the case, make sure it feels impactful, it is very important for Void Form gameplay.
Destroying or breaking down Void Form feeling and gameplay is something many people will be unhappy about.

Thank you very much !!!
Sincerely,
Morrigän

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It’s falling on deaf ears unfortunately.

I loved how they worked in legion where you fought against the insanity bar, casting an immense amount of void bolts and mind flays with an ever increasing haste buff. Especially with the surrender to madness talent on botanists in nighthold.

What a boring change they did with SL turning it into a 15 sec ability with a 90 sec CD. And then they even removed the haste increase making the new talent that’s the ‘‘old voidform’’ a shell of its former being.

From playing an unique spec to Affliction Warlocks lesser impressive brother.

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Unfortunately, we will never have that version of Shadow Priest from Legion, even though it was really , really awesome.

On the other hand, as you are saying, Void Form being 15 second duration ability with a cooldown feels very, very wrong and it just falls into the category of something that is not even that impactful as it used to be.

Sure, people can take any other talent besides Legacy of the Void if they dislike Void Form, that is totally fine, but I hope they can make LotV work they way that people who like Void Form can stick up with it do what we did in Legion and BFA.

Indeed, if these changes won’t go through for an actual long Void Form with the components it needs, it will feel and be very similar to Affliction Warlock indeed.

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They prolly won’t.

The 90 second CD doesn’t appear to be lifted when u talent into legacy of the void by notes.

They won’t ever bring it back for void form, blizzard will never actively head towards a repeat of legion tier 1

It’s too strong when it’s good and it’s too bad when it’s terrible.

No matter how much fun the specc was in legion. It has done nothing but been punished for it since, the mechanic just isn’t practical for the class. Reverting it’s stacking ability is a thing sure, but let’s not pretend shadow priests were OP as all hell when we had those things

They can’t revert it because they aren’t going to actively make shadow priests the best DPS specc xD

My fear with the talent is:

If they make it the best option their revamps undone effectively and the complaints will restart, so it’s not really feasible to make that talent competitive. And likely to be more a niche pick against specific encounters

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And that is the issue - They want to make Shadow Priest flexible for both “groups” of people - those that dislike Void Form and those that like it.
I understand the Cooldown and duration for that sake, but I think Legacy of the Void should provide you with “original” hence Legion and BFA Void Form for that purpose.
Those who will not pick LotV will have their “no Void Form” gameplay as they wanted it, but at the same time, LotV should give us, those who like Void Form, the play style it was originally created for - long stacking of Void Form.

But currently, LotV is not providing that. Like, what is 15-20 stacks Void Form? That is nothing. I just think and believe they should pay attention to both groups of these people and provide both with what they wanted - “no Void Form” and “full Void Form” at its best.

As for specific encounters, we’ll have to see. With the rework, for now, it seems that Shadow Priest will have close to monstrous cleave with the reworked stuff, but we will have to see.

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Hard disagree.

People keep saying that the players who enjoyed the spec for 4 years feel betrayed- Well guess what? Thats how the rest of us felt when a spec that had worked just fine over 10+ years without significant changes were told that we needed a gimmick to feel “unique”.

You like doing any other content than raid bosses? Tough luck. Thats how it felt.

Yes, just like Survival hunters feel now more unique than ever before, yet overnight from WoD to Legion a third of the playerbase fled the spec and it has since been the least played spec in the game.

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Ironicly the new legacy of the void will be kinda like survival hunters bottom row talent birds of prey.

Hopefully you can get good uptime on it.

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This is not about survival or hunter or any hunter spec whatsoever I’m afraid.

You can disagree with me as much as you want, but that does not change anything.

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the problem with the orginal design of Shadow Priest, it was off the handle Overpowered in a capable priests hands

and sure we can say “well they got good, they deserve the rewards”. the game Cannot Support the concept of “well this Class is harder so it deserves to be BiS”. because this alienates other class options When Everyone rerolls the top DPS Class.

no one was demanding void form gone when it was good, the problem is the class Was Overpowered in a good players hands and average in the normal players. and because of those really good players shadow had to be capped down.

they’ll never re-release what it was back in Legion first tier. and the problem with this is… its Litterally Limited down and Shackled to prevent good players abusing the build.

People wantr Shadow priest on a more reliable Balancable Build, its Not a hatred towards the current designs for the hell of it… its Just not feasible to be nerfed every expansion because Some dude figures out how to abuse the hell out of your class.

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But I never said it SHOULD be overpowered nor that it deserves “BiS” just because it is harder to play. I have never stated such a thing and I do not agree with it.

Now, are you refering to Shadow Priests in Legion? If yes, then I agree, if the SP was in good hands, it became overpowered.
Are you talking about BFA? Then no. BFA SP is far from overpowered. It is very decent in good hands, but not overpowered at all.

Of course they will never bring Shadow Priest back to what it was in Legion, because it was simply too powerful.

However, they have presented us Void Form at it’s best, and all I believe it deserves is to be somewhat decent in Shadowlands, as it is in BFA.
Right now, as of beta changes for SP, LotV basically Void Form stuffed into a talent, and, while I disagree with that, they could make the talent worth it enough so that it actually works as a normal Void Form, not a 15 second buff and whatnot.

My point is not to make SP overpowered or busted, but simply give those people that enjoy Void Form what they like and want.

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Make another class with void stuff and get that.

I made a shadow priest in tbc because I liked that play style. Changing that to something else is not what I signed up for.

I’m glad voidform is getting gutted. Bring back original shadow!

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There’s no need for new class with void theme.

This spec can work perfectly fine, with both Void Form and without Void Form and that is exactly what they are trying to do - thanks to the hate train against Void Form, some people like you hold on to that, which I respect, you do not like it.

But they can make it work for those that like Void Form and for those who do not like it. And that is why I created this post - suggesting some solution that both groups are happy, that is the whole point I’m trying to make, hence, LotV changes and adjustments are needed for that.

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im not saying you are, im simply saying. without the Shackles they applied to the Specc the Capabilities of the class were simply too strong. It took BFAs halving of its Core Capabilities and more to realistically bring its Numbers down… and even then It Was getting nerfed after Azshara due to its power creep once again.

my point is, the current design of the class is Continously causing it to be Nerfed drastically. and thats not healthy for its Playerbase Nor the class itself. it sheds itself into this negative Area where people just think its bad permanantly.

It is and isnt in BFA… its hard to make work in several situations, Its shown great neglect through the M+ Scene and ontop of that its reguarded a Painful journey to solo with.

this is the problem with stuffing it into a Talent. it either goes BiS and People get mad all over again or it isnt BiS and ur Not going to use it realistically. but this would apply to even if u made it a Seperate Specc, not to mention to flaws of Multiple DPS Speccs in SL.

At the end of the day, we saw what Spriest was gonna be once it lost its borrowed power, it was not good and it would defintly of not been a Enjoyable theme.

Now overbuffing it or resetting it back to its old path… Just will Recreate Legion tier 1… So the nerfs to it in the early alpha would have to persist to prevent that power creep.

the question is… is the Void form you saw in Early Beta what u want, because basically every Spriest was getting ready to reroll…

because thats what it takes to stop that design Just overperforming in the 1%s Hands.

i aint saying you want it Overpowered

Im saying giving the class what it needs in the early part of the game… creates a Huge Power Leap once the class gets what it needs Ontop of the changes made to remove those Needs

the big reason Tier 1 Legion was soooo god damn OP was because the game gave us what we needed to get these classes rolling and then the onpour of gear made content a Joke.

we cant recreate a Situation where classes scale wildly with gear… and THe best version of Void Priest was Simply When it scaled Out of control… Without that initial thing. it dulls What class could do.

U could only reach 99 Stacks of Insanity BECAUSE it was overpowered… and if it gets back to stacking 99 Stacks… it’ll be broken all over again.

Void form… is Jsut simply… a Shackle that if Is Opened or Even jarred becomes absolute Monster in its capability to scale.

this is the problem with reworks… they attract a Population to a Theme… then When a rework happens it Reshuffles the playerbase the class appeals to. its the sad truth, its happened every time they’ve reworked a class…

I dont hate void form… its Just once of these mechanics i cant see blizzard ever getting right… and i’d rather see the class Profit then take another 4 expansions for them to Get it right. and this holds alot of weight.

think about it realistically, the reason we dont want convenant Choices to be apart of our Power Gain or borrowed power systems Is because we dont think blizzard will get it right… and they’ve proved throughout time they Wont get this stuff right.

Void form is Such a cool idea on paper, but human Nature Sticks its foot Right in it realistically. its So stat heavy and with so much scaling power involved… its effectively gotta be neutered before every release. sadly… the fact DPS matters so much and everyones gotten to the point we can track absolutely everything… Shackles the ability to be creative, because Now DPS matters… players will Never stop caring if one class does more DPS then the other class… so they bound to the fact they have to put every class on a balancable system to even attempt at getting these close.

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Mate, I don’t mean to be rude, but by the looks of what you are saying, you have not really played SP very much, if you ever played it at all.

Some things you are saying are straight up nonsenses … So I understand you have a very different view point, because you do not know much about the spec in details and deeper matters, which is fine … But it’s not always only what you see or hear.

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I have played a Shadow Priest.

And im also aware of how Shadow priests in its current iterations have Started Expansions. and Generally classes which are Dependent on Stats to build towards things start ALOT rougher then other classes which are more capable.

Every expansion launch since Legion… both BFA Alpha/beta and the SL Alpha has basically everyone saying Spriest Doesnt work without its Old bandaids being reapplied.

And Having Azerite gear Propping up your class IS a bandaid. and Sure every class needs Azerite gear to Perform at BiS. but i’ve made ALOT of characters… and its pretty obvious which ones start ALOT worse then others… and Spriest is defintly one.

i have 48 Characters 4 of which were Shadow priests that to a Extent have progressed BFA Content and ALOT of those have done visions, Done their cloak quests and more. and Iv’e done them through several Patchs of this expansion.

Shadow Priest was ALOT of fun when it was Overpowered… its become ALOT less fun for ALOT of players Since they introduced the wave of nerfs to Void form Which shackled it down from doing what it could do.

For Example

Watch Preachs Video on the first Iteration of Shadow Priest.

and his Second video of Shadow priest.

Or even just look at player feedback since that first tier comparitively to its following tiers.

by mid Legion people were complaining about its Design and By BFA alot of People were Demanding its Deletion, theres a Reason the opinons have Done nothing but turn more negative. because blizzard Keep Recycling the concept on each launch… with More Nerfs everytime and then use borrowed Power to Bandaid the Massive holes in the design caused by said Nerfs.

If u take off All ur azerite gear and try to play Shadow Priest, its ALOT less fun then it is While its Equipted.

am i a Wildly good Shadow Priest Who could mathmatically give you a Fix or a number that would Immediately fix the class… or in a Position to say if void form is or Isnt fixable?.. No.

but the average Player can tell u what it feels like levelling a Shadow Priest, doing the average M+ Key with a Shadow Priest. Participating in Low Content with a Shadow priest. and what the class Feels like prior getting those BiS Traits and Borrowed power systems which the top 1% Have.

and the average player can tell you, Blizzard cant balance the BASICS for the life of them. what Chance have they got against something as Complex in balancing as Void form. blizzard have had 3 Iterations now to fix void form. they cant do it and they wont hire a Pro Spriest to do it either.

so i’ll take this Revamp before i put faith in their ability to fix this gameplay.

i aint saying void form dont get good, the Logs are there proving shadow priests can be amazing… but that doesnt make up for how they feel when u dont have the items which make Void form so good.

but u are correct, my time invested in Shadow Priest… has defintly gotten Lower… although again… if i’ve been against void form… why would my investment be high… I Rerolled like any normal human being that dont like something.

my favorite era of Shadow Priest was Catacylsm… so yeah… I want Cata Shadow Priest back I didnt like what they tried to do with the class in MoP… i didnt Play WoD, and i liked Shadow for the first parts of Legion… but they nerfed it down and it felt worse. and BFA Beta basically killed my love for the specc entirely.

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All they had to do was put it on a 90 seconds CD…

Legacy of the void sounds really week, compared to the other 2 in that line… they should bring back the most essential part of Voidform, the hastebuff.

They need to concentrate on ballancing those 3 level 50 Talents, while bringing back voidform tobe a true legacy and not what looks like being a pale form of its previous self…

I can live with a voidform every 90 secconds… but not with the legacy of the void tallent, that does not live up to the legacy of the void…

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That. Yes. Even that does not solve the whole problem, but it would solve SOMETHING about LotV. I agree with you. But there are only few people at the moment who realize it.
I really want LotV at it’s best potential, it is very much needed, I don’t want Void Form stuffed into a talent, but if that has to be the thing, then the talent could be a “normal” Void Form we have now.

But I agree with what you are saying.

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Does it? The crit one is good for burst and i’m sure will be the go too in 9.0/9.1 but if we have high crit/haste it is likely to take over later in the expansion.

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voidform is rly bad design that cant be balanced they should just remove it and lotv also

its super boring gameplay (maybe only pve noobs like it)

i dont know any shadow priest that know what is doing and played shadow in the past that like voidform

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i bet you wish they catered more to the 0,5% playing pvp

When did they actually tried to balance VF ? Right. They never did