Shadow Priest DPS stat priority?

Classes Priest
103

TLDR

A simulation is a mathematic model. It’s really a hypothesis, a starting point for gearing. This goes for any other crap you make up. Your own opinion being the worst posible source. This goes for made up rules.

Haste = Crit > Versatility > Mastery > Intellect comes from the method website. It adds another caveat, check your stat weights. The stat weights for ellipsìs shows vers>crit>> everything else. So via that rule ellipsìs should drop the crit gems for vers. After all they are worth more that crit. Right? Well not so fast.

Both sims agree, there is lots of different stat combinations that will lead to good performance. Both imply Haste = Crit is wrong. Stat weights in Simc will vary depending on how much of each stat you have.
Ask Mr Robot has a graph under gear check. Here haste wins out over crit. More haste the better.

Both simc and ask mr robot lead to good results. You will get high %ilvl in logs using both. Both don’t agree on gems. Simc stat weights vers gems only for ellipsìs (gear that was sim’ed at the time) and Ask mr robot haste gems (gear that was sim’ed at the time).

Simc and Ask mr robot are considered reliable. If this is true or not is another thing. Ask mr robot went out of its way to prove it was reliable but that is another story caused by people slandering it. I wonder who…

Both are the same when sim’ed (simc and ask mr robot) for maximum mean dps, changing 12% haste buff to 12% crit is always higher. This is for both ST and MT. For both sims.

Thus we can as a hypothesis imply crit >haste for ellipsìs’s. I am not relying on ellipsìs’s gear as a model. Ellipsìs’s gear is not like most other people’s gear. Most people want to know if haste/vers or haste/mastery will be worth most. People gearing with what they have at hand. haste=crit has no meaning here. It has no value. It won’t tell you anything. It’s the grey areas were people need to know which item is of more value.

This means that the original rule is likely unreliable and the outcome is likely gear specific.

As the original statement has no real arguement behind it. Being able to form a hypothesis using two independent methematic models. That in itself would be enough to require Ellipsìs to prove it was a valid rule. To show what chain of evidence it comes from and the limits of validity. Or retract. Not make arguments about new players and what they want. Like you were running a business and all customer are thick.

We already know were the statement came from and that is the method website. This same source also makes a statement about vers.

The method website state some of the following.

Yet we are to take one statement with the rule and ignore this other ones about checking your stat weights. This is called cherry picking and should be avoided. Simc also agrees that what method states applies. It’s stat weights clearly show vers as the highest for Ellipsìs gear. Method is really just telling you not to blindly follow the rule. That is an important fact worth considering.

So you have the position, you can’t agree with your own source completely. Won’t agree with the simc output, won’t agree with another independent sim Ask Mr Robot and won’t provide proof. Then believe they are the experts, that without proof can show you are wrong. This is not how a debte works and 100% how you lose a debate very quickly.

Good luck, I won’t waste any more time on you lot. I can read methods website myself and become just as much of an expert as you lot are.

104

Hi Aalok,

I’ll spell it out very clearly because you seem to be genuinely confused: Stat rankings are indeed not as accurate as simming your gear and nobody is saying otherwise.
Stat rankings (for some specs, like Shadow) can be used to make close-to-optimal gearing decisions quickly and easily.
If you’re still unclear about something feel free to write another novel.

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105

Next time you want to share something, I would advise to keep your post short and to the point.
The way you posted in this entire tread has been very confusing to me.

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106

Well siming gear won’t agree with your statement. As pointed out above and given your own gear is not optimal stat wise in Ask mr robot gear check its not a good sign.

As my counter hypothesis backed by two sims. Simc and Ask Mr Robot. This leads to reasonable doubt about your position. You have no choice but to prove your hypothesis. Or concede to my point that there could be something wrong.

The stat weights for ELLIPSÌS

102,740 DPS

Goblin Shadow Priest

Stat Weights
Critical Strike 11.61
Haste 11.22
Versatility 11.05
Mastery 8.28
Intellect 4.09

  • 1 point of Critical Strike will increase your DPS by 11.61

Here crit is worth more than haste as pointed out before with the previous build.

Here the rule haste = crit does not apply. You do get these points in simc were the stats are all close together. This is way the current build is past 100k dps in simc. More of less the rule here would be crit~haste~vers.

If I load the same simc gear in ask mr robot, the stat distribution is not optimal on the current gear.

ST Gear better than yours often has:
Less Crit
More Haste
More Mastery

MT Gear better than yours often has:
Less Crit
More Haste
More Mastery
More Vers

Please prove what is optimal stat wise and show via proof that this is close to your rule. Show this makes close-to-optimal gearing decisions quick and easily.

No proof, (and I mean a real proof) no claim that you can be right. This really has to be my last post. You seem to labour under the misconception that just because you can make a statement, you are automatically an authority. At no point has any real argument been put forward against anything I have stated. You are a waste of time which is why I have been trying to move on to playing the game.

Note: Currently my gear sims at 100,123 HPS @ 438 average item level. For raids my current gear has a very good stat distribution. Qulnn Silvermoon as a random example has 100,261 HPS @ 475 average item level. For raids Qulnn’s current gear has a very good stat distribution. The point is stats are not the only variable.

I have run one LFG for gear. Almost all gear in this build is from sources other than raids. It was planned but I did not get some choice items I was after.

107

You’re looking at someone who has already stacked a metric ton of haste and crit (and even then the stat ranking still mostly works). The more you have of one stat, the less valuable it becomes relative to your other stats.

These are the stat weights in my (neglected) shadow gear:

Critical Strike 10.75
Haste 10.20
Versatility 9.48
Mastery 7.73
Intellect 3.94

raidbots /simbot/report/tNQscLvteadyMjkH6xG9Fn

Vers is a bit higher than the guideline would suggest, because I have 1835 crit, 1566 haste, 1000 mastery and only 329 vers.
I did my best to even the stats out in the next simulation (1127 crit, 1127 haste, 1236 mastery, 1238 vers) and got this:

Critical Strike 12.33
Haste 12.17
Versatility 8.24
Mastery 7.32
Intellect 3.78

raidbots /simbot/report/grByhbUR27iqyyMswzUYRp

which pretty much exactly matches the guideline of haste=crit>vers>mastery.

Stop simming HPS my dude. We already talked about this. People in 475 gear can heal a lot more than 100k HPS and you know that.

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108

Which by your own statement means no one rule applies. You stack haste thus haste loses value. Thus then crit is worth more. Thus by your own argument haste = crit can change depending on the amounts of other stats. Haste = crit could apply for one sim but crit > haste for another. Even vers can become worth more value than haste or crit. Even posible crit~haste~vers which is why you run stat weights and not rely on sophistry. Even ELLIPSÌS latest build is higher, note the vers in the build. Should he now drop the vers lower his maximum dps just to make your rule right?

You have to model this mathematically and prove it with observation. Otherwise the rule should not be followed. This burden of proof is not on me.

No you’re crit>haste but you can say crit~haste (approx.) because they are close. This does not apply to ELLIPSÌS’s latest build which is approx crit~haste~vers. His mean dps has increased. Now vers has dropped in value and is no longer #1 stat weight. Note It was vers~crit>>haste. Three stats are now in the latest build close together crit~haste~vers. This breaks the rule as expected. Thus <100kdps is now >100k dps. This is why the source states to run your stat weights. Ignoring the exceptions to the rule won’t win you the argument.

Straw man. We have never talked about it and reach any conclusion that I am wrong. I can sim whatever I like. If you don’t like it, I don’t see how its my problem.

The conclusion I stated was that stats are not the only variable. Stop misrepresenting my statements.

Stop presenting your opinion as if its fact. You have shown no evidence you are right. In fact it looks quite the opposite, with the avoidance of evidence based reasoning and reliance on rhetoric.

From this point on I will ignore everything that is not a valid argument. I am wasting too much time on this.

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Yes you are wasting to much time in this.
Your posts are so long and cluttered they are hard to read.
The guide is correct. Start with crit&haste and balance it out when you have enough.
Sim you gear to optimise it.
Hps was not part of the topic.

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110

My current shadow rotation is:
Log in
Try to forget of how amazing Shadow orbs were.
Play void
Try not to cry
Cry a lot

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111

It’s good that you understand the effects of stacking secondaries on stat weights, now try to think back two posts to when I told you the point of the stat ranking: It’s a quick and easy rule for people that don’t want to sim every piece of loot they they get. It’s still not as accurate as simming your gear and nobody sais it is.
I showed you that the rule applies very clearly to a Shadowpriest with more or less evenly distributed stats. That and the big difference between crit+haste and the other stats kind of implies that it’s a decent rule to go by. If you really reject it because crit actually sims at 12.33 and haste at 12.17 and that’s not mathmatically equal, you are again missing the point.

Your conlusion is irrelevant. You said that you sim at about the same HPS as a healer with 30 more ilvl, which implies that your sim is doing something very wrong.
You can play the game however you want, but don’t expect people to take your sims seriously if you post results like these.

I gave you evidence in this post. Based on our last conversation, I predict you will reject it because it doesn’t prove a point I never made.
Your experience on this forum would probably be a lot more pleasant if you put more effort into understanding other people’s posts or expressed yourself a bit more clearly.

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112

Lil kicker for this topic the op talked about using rings with crit/haste without int, which suggests they are not even max yet.

If this is true op and your still reading through all this chaos. I would recommend haste> a few ilvls> int. Haste is the only thing that makes shadow feel decent levelling.

Got anything to say about that Robot man? You got sims for how a spec feels? :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

113

Honestly, the problem itself is not the result of the healing sims, is the fact that he thinks you can actually sim healing in the first place. Healing sims are completely irrelevant because there’s so many outside factors compared to dps that you cannot even semi-accurately sim HPS. Not to mention HPS is bad indicator in the first place unless people are literally dying to lack of healing.

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